Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

I always assumed that there are more overshoot airport accidents than undershoot ones. That is mainly due to our general knowledge that it's better to be too high than not high enough.
Am I correct here ?
Dan

I will say for more than 40 years flying sailplanes (and some power) undershoots are more common at an airport.
Offfield, I would guess more like 50/50........

My common thing in the beginning of the flying season.....get current, then do several "hang all the crap out from high on final!" To see what it looks like.
This could be a SGS-xxx to a ASW-20A or C (which come down like homesick bricks when pushed).

As in other disciplines, "train for the worst, hope for the best!"

Yes, 8 years as a CFIG, did a lot more basic through XC training.
Some here know where I have landed before with no more than grass stains.

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 8:28:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I always assumed that there are more overshoot airport accidents than undershoot ones. That is mainly due to our general knowledge that it's better to be too high than not high enough.
Am I correct here ?
Dan

In 50+ years of soaring, I've only ever seen one overshoot - a pilot mistook the flap handle for the spoiler and flew the whole length of the runway with full flaps and no spoilers. I've seen plenty come short, including two hitting wire fences at the beginning of a mile-long runway! Modern sailplanes can dump altitude spectacularly - I have turned from base to final at 1,000 feet and still made a descent to the proper end of the runway. Wind shear and unexpected sink in the pattern can ruin your day!

Mike

Overshoots are more likely in small field landouts. Undershoots are more likely in airports due to low patterns.

Ramy

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 3:51:44 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Overshoots are more likely in small field landouts. Undershoots are more likely in airports due to low patterns.

Ramy

Unless you are flying an AS-W12. I heard a story from a very well know pilot that he had been given the advice on slipping the 12 to landing of "don't take it out of the slip early, as it will float forever. It will even float further than you think it might if you take it out of the slip when you are afraid of spearing the wingtip into the ground." So, he slipped for all he was worth, took it back to straight, and landed short of the runway!

But in general, yes. I have seen people fly low patterns far more often than I have seen someone land long. And I have seen people be praised after a low pattern, never touching the dive brakes, and floating in ground effect for an incredible distance to make it to the desired stopping place.

Steve Leonard

On 4/17/2019 2:51 PM, Ramy wrote:
Overshoots are more likely in small field landouts. Undershoots are more
likely in airports due to low patterns.


Likely generally true, IMO, and to anecdotally expand a bit...

Home-field anecdotes - I know of (did not see) exactly one OVERshoot (defined
as 'overshooting the runway' and NOT merely the intended aiming point) on my
home field post-'1977: L-13; pilot ended up with a strand of barbed wire taut
across his throat after heaving mightily on the flaps handle (thinking it was
the spoiler handle) until stopped by the fence. OTOH I've seen multiple (as
in, WAY too numerous to count) low-patterns, including one that ended in the
small lake off the west end of the most-commonly-used runway, another that
('safely') clipped a tree on final, and one (mine, I'm embarrassed to note)
that *almost* ended in the lake due to slightly misjudging a short-field,
full-HP-14-flaps, practice-approach to the actual runway threshold located
perhaps 200' beyond the end of the lake. At least I stopped ON the runway (by
about a fuselage length)...and thereafter never-again practiced short-field
landings with a zero-margin aiming point. (Duh!)

Off-field opinionating - It's - again, IMO - 'fairly common' for newbies and
those lacking 'much' off-field landing experience to fly in-too-tight downwind
legs (evidently 'feels safer'?) to ultimately end up high on final...which has
'the usual expected results' if the field they're aiming for is (in their
estimation) a short one. A buddy totaled his PIK-20B by overshooting a
shortish field in the mountains. Per his recounting, he made 3 fundamental
errors: 1) downwind final (!); 2) high/tight downwind (no surprise to me); 3)
5+ knots of 'safety speed' throughout the pattern (for the wife and
kiddies...but inappropriate under the circumstances). He was fortunate to not
be injured. His post-mortem concluded the field was of sufficient length for a
properly flown/executed approach/pattern/flare to a reasonable aiming
point...IOW it definitely did NOT require 'all-out pilot-proficiency' as a
chosen field.

I'll bet Real Money 'foolishly low approaches' are wincingly common at the
vast majority of USA gliderports, based on decades of critiquing 'em at many a
field as an interested, bystanding, soaring nut.

Bob W.

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Confucius he say "Better the far fence at 15kts than the one on approach at
stall speed".

2 years ago our club (Soaring Club of Houston) invited a speaker from the Soaring Safety Foundation to speak at our club's annual safety meeting. Part of that presentation included a discussion on how to more effectively scrub excess altitude. The procedure is simple. Extend full airbrakes and then push the nose over to speed up. The drag is exponential to airspeed so a 15-20 knot increase in airspeed generates a tremendous sink rate. No need to slip.

A bit later that spring another SCOH pilot asked me to fly with him for a couple pattern tows so I had the opportunity to teach and video from the back seat. In the link that follows we're in a ASK-21 at 900 ft AGL on base and using the described procedure it only required speeding up to 80 knots to reach the approach end of the runway and use less than 1,000 ft to stop.

My take away from the lecture and this procedure is that it's always better to be on the high side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE61...&feature=share

Le jeudi 18 avril 2019 14:17:40 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
2 years ago our club (Soaring Club of Houston) invited a speaker from the Soaring Safety Foundation to speak at our club's annual safety meeting. Part of that presentation included a discussion on how to more effectively scrub excess altitude. The procedure is simple. Extend full airbrakes and then push the nose over to speed up. The drag is exponential to airspeed so a 15-20 knot increase in airspeed generates a tremendous sink rate. No need to slip.

A bit later that spring another SCOH pilot asked me to fly with him for a couple pattern tows so I had the opportunity to teach and video from the back seat. In the link that follows we're in a ASK-21 at 900 ft AGL on base and using the described procedure it only required speeding up to 80 knots to reach the approach end of the runway and use less than 1,000 ft to stop..

My take away from the lecture and this procedure is that it's always better to be on the high side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE61...&feature=share

Go and try that with a DuoDiscus.

Bert TW

On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 8:12:20 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:

Go and try that with a DuoDiscus.

Bert TW

But, only on a runway that is clear off the departure end. Because you will depart, right, Bert?

Steve Leonard