Juan Jiminez is a liar and a fraud (was: Zoom fables on ANN

Corky Scott wrote in
:

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:31:33 GMT, Juan Jimenez wrote:

Exactly. Thank you so much for walking right into that one and proving
my point beyond a shadow of a doubt, They said they cannot prove the
documents are authentic, not that the content of the documents are
false.

Keep swinging! Maybe next week, kiddo!

I don't think so. I'm taking my own advice which I've offered many
times before in regards anyone attempting intelligent conversation
with you and halting my participation.

Oh, poor baby, Corky loses the debate and now decides to go home and throw
a tantrum? Tsk tsk...

osite (RobertR237) wrote in
:

FLUSH the **** down the toilet.

No, Bob! Don't do it! Don't commit suicide! Not yet, anyway! We haven't
found a replacement for your RAH Court Jester job yet! chuckle

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:03:29 GMT, Juan Jimenez wrote:

richard riley wrote in
:

:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?

And wife

Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.

and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)

Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
content was innacurate.

and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).

Who is refusing to comment on the matter.

There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
completely disproved.

Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.


The misconception is that the military documented everything and that
those documents are perfectly preserved in an archive. It just ain't
so!

You would think an Army CID murder investigation would be well
documented. After 8 years of research the only documents I've found
are 2 civilian newspaper articles.

So the absence of documents only proves there are no documents.
Actually, it only proves that they haven't been found.

By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727. He
could have just as easily have fallen down a well in a drunken stupor.

Same analogy.

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
richard riley wrote in
:

:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?

And wife

Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.

and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)

Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
content was innacurate.

and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).

Who is refusing to comment on the matter.

There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
completely disproved.

Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.



How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be a
shirker is beyond me. Meanwhile, sKerry bugged out of Nam with 3 scratches
after only 4 months. It's one thing for an enlisted man or draftee to "game
the system" to bug out early, quite another for a commissioned Navy officer
to do so. Absolutely despicable. Which is why 80% of his unit mates
despise him. Plust meeting the VC later in Paris. Good lord...

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville Gazette
weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and commanders over
Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and Bush hater, therefore
whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan you are a classic Micheal
Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says everything.

John the Canadian Bush Fan

------------------------------------------------------------

Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

For a long time, I've wanted to prepare a detailed summary of the evidence
of the many National Guard veterans who have come forward to verify George
Bush's service. Most of the evidence is in the extended entry. This item is
cross-posted from I Love Jet Noise.

Another National Guard veteran who served with George Bush has stepped
forward to vouch for the President, leading me once again to ask: why are
the lamestream media unable (or perhaps unwilling?) to find these people?
Could it be bias?

Day after day the media repeat the same two or three lame accusations,
supported by the same two or three tired, old accusers. But voters only get
one side of the story: the side the Kerry campaign wants you to hear. What
ever happened to balanced reporting? Exculpatory evidence? There's plenty.
Let's look at the accusations -- and the evidence you haven't seen:

1. Bush was a slacker who used his Daddy's influence to get into the Guard
and avoid combat. He had no flying ability and shirked his duty:

Retired Colonel Ed Morrisey ought to know about Lt. George Bush: he swore
the young National Guardsman in and observed his service firsthand (via
Power Line):
"George W. went to pilot training, seated well, being selected to be a
fighter pilot, which is at the top of the line in the Air Force selection
process. Came back to train in the F-102 at Ellington. He stood alert like
anyone else," says Colonel Morrisey.
According to Morrisey, then-Lieutenant Bush more than fulfilled his guard
requirements.
Morrisey says in the six years the President served he never failed to meet
participation point requirements.
"Bush averaged 176 per year. In no year did he have less that 50," says
Morrisey. "He was rated by his commander, Col. Maurice Udell in the top 5 of
his pilots."
One of the criticisms leveled at the President is that he sought guard
service to keep him from serving in Vietnam.
Morrisey says, "not so."
"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's and
took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed to have
500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he wasn't
eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.
Despite that, Lieutenant Bush stayed busy.
"He flew in active air defense missions, training missions. Day, night,
regardless of inclement weather," Morrisey says.
Colonel Morrisey assured us that to the best of his knowledge Lieutenant
Bush was treated like any other officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

Perhaps the media declined to interview Morrisey because he's just another
bitter, partisan hack. Like Bill Burkett, for instance...it's so refreshing
to see the same standard applied even-handedly, isn't it?
Morrisey says he considers himself to be more of a Libertarian than
Republican or Democrat. Nonetheless, Morrisey says he is voting for George
Bush come election day.

And then there's Bush's roommate, Major Dean A. Roome. Hardly a household
word like Burkett (now discredited) or Turnipseed (an Alzheimer's sufferer
misquoted by the Boston Globe), mainstays of the Bush AWOL story. Surely it
didn't take the investigative talents of Woodward and Bernstein to unearth
Major Roome's story:
"He was one of my favorite people to ride formation with, because he was
smooth. He was a very competent pilot," Roome said. "You sort of bet your
life on each other in some of those formation missions, and to me it was
always a pleasure to fly with George. He was good."
Bush logged more than 625 hours in the cockpit and ranked in the top 10
percent of his squadron, according to his performance evaluations.
"They're saying we're all a bunch of privileged draft dodgers, and that we
got in there to get out of Vietnam," Roome said. "But that's not the case.
In our unit, we had an average of two people overseas in the Vietnam theater
continuously from 1968 to 1970." He says he and other Guard pilots did
combat support missions as part of a program codenamed "Palace Alert
Southeast Asia."
He recalls Bush and another lieutenant volunteering for the program. "When I
left for it, I told him he ought to look into it, and George was interested
in it, because he and (ret. Lt. Col. Fred) Bradley went and saw the colonel
and inquired about it," Roome said. But they were too late. The program was
winding down and not accepting any more volunteers, and Bush didn't have
enough flight time to qualify anyway. By July 1970, the overseas F-102
program had been canceled altogether, Roome says.

The accounts of Morrisey and Roome are corroborated by a third officer,
Colonel William Campenelli:
A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert)
was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war
effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised
by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the
desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding
down and not accepting more volunteers.
"Lieutenant Bush is an outstanding young pilot and officer and is a credit
to his unit," Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges wrote on May 27, 1971. "This officer is
rated in the upper 10 percent of his contemporaries." Another, written by
Maj. William Harris on May 26, 1972, was just as glowing: "Lieutenant Bush
is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer."

But Bush was obviously just a snotty rich kid - of course his officer buds
would stick up for him. I'll bet he was a real jerk around enlisted men...
always throwing his weight around. Former Staff Sergeant Dan Liles:
....wonders why previous Bush campaigns didn't trumpet his exemplary flying
record. "I was surprised when he ran for president that his flying record
didn't come out," he said, "because it was pretty good." Liles, who also
doubts "any rules were bent" for Bush, says the young Ivy League officer
never acted like he was better than anyone else in the squadron. "He was one
of the few officers out there who would let you walk along beside him. Most
officers, you'd have to walk five feet behind them out on the flight line,"
Liles said. "But Bush wasn't like that. He was probably the nicest guy out
there."

2. Bush went AWOL during the last year of his Guard service:

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here and
have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant about even
active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when it comes to
understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely investigative
journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin experience to help
them interpret these records?

And then there are the eyewitnesses who remember seeing Lt. Bush:

Captain Ed reports that Air Force Sgt. James Copeland, saw George W. Bush
report for drill at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, AL
during the period CBS and Democrats claim he was AWOL:
Copeland, who lives in Hartselle, retired from the Air Force on Jan. 31,
1980. He was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time position,
for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct. 28, 1971, to
Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from the hangar where Bush
performed drills.
Rumors say Bush went AWOL while assisting Winton "Red" Blount in an
unsuccessful campaign for U.S. Senate focus on 1972 and 1973.

Moreover, Copeland disputes the DNC's smear that Bush levereged his
privileged background:
"Maybe the Bush family was well known in Texas, but we didn't know who he
was here. He was just another guy in a flight jacket," Copeland said Sunday.

Copeland's account is important, because it corroborates the account of
another eyewitness, Lt. Col. John Calhoun:
Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not remember
the precise dates. On one occasion, Copeland said, Bush and Lt. Col. John
"Bill" Calhoun came to Copeland's office with a question about Bush's pay.
Copeland is not sure, but he believes the question had to do with where to
mail Bush's checks.
Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in Montgomery
would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work with Bush during
every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last week that he saw Bush
every drill time, which was one weekend each month.
Not only was Calhoun in a position to know of Bush's service, Copeland said,
but Calhoun "was an ethical and honest officer."

Via Bill Hobbs

Calhoun came forward back in February to say he remembered seeing Bush
report for drill:
"The truth is George Bush came to Alabama. He asked for weekend drills with
us. He was assigned to me," said Calhoun, who was in Florida on Friday for
this weekend's Daytona 500 festivities.
"He showed up. He sat in my office. He signed in," Calhoun said. "He was
very determined to be there. He was in uniform and he did what he was
supposed to do." Calhoun recalled he thought the young lieutenant was
"fairly low key" though Bush told him he had been "working day and night" on
Blount's Senate campaign. Calhoun asked Bush if he had political ambition.
"He said, 'I don't know. Maybe.' "
Calhoun said he sometimes grabbed a sandwich with Bush in the snack bar.
Other times, the young pilot would sit on a couch and read flight magazines
and training manuals.

A third eyewitness also places the young Bush in the area. Emily Wills
Curtis remembers seeing him, too - several times:
"He called to tell me he was coming back to finish up his National Guard
duty," said Mrs. Curtis, who now lives in New Orleans. "I can say
categorically he was there, and that's why he came back."
She said that he rented an apartment for a two-week stay and that she met
him for dinner several times.
"I didn't see him go to work. I didn't see him come home from work," she
said. "He told me that was why he was in Montgomery. There is no other
reason why he would come back to Montgomery."

Kevin Drum has a sighting too:
Joe LeFevers, a member of the 187th in 1972, said he remembers seeing Bush
in unit offices and being told that Bush was in Montgomery to work on
Blount's campaign.
"I was going in the orderly room over there one day, and they said, 'This is
Lt. Bush,'" LeFevers said Tuesday. "They pointed him out to me ... the
reason I remember it is because I associate him with Red Blount."


Is anyone else starting to see a pattern here? In each case, several
witnesses have come forth independently, giving the same story and
corroborating the same version of events. Personally I question the timing.

Fortunately, the media are not as gullible as the pajamahadeen: that's why
they're the pros. They continue to report the misquotation of William
Turnipseed, a man with Alzheimer's disease, who says he wasn't even on the
base, and therefore could not be sure whether or not George Bush attended
drill, as "proof" he was AWOL. And they continue to run the word of a
Democratic partisan with a history of mental problems, a man who once swore
under oath he did not use improper influence to help Bush get into the
Guard, a man who has been implicated in the handling of forged documents, as
a credible source. That's why we need to keep news coverage out of the hands
of the hoi-polloi, folks.

3. Bush disobeyed orders to report for drill and to take a flight physical:
But in an interview, Turnipseed states that Robinson's reporting of their
conversation was either distorted or based upon his misunderstanding of how
the military functioned at the time of Bush's service. For Bush to be "AWOL"
or "away without leave," he would have had to have been assigned to a unit
and under its command.
Turnipseed states Bush was never ordered to report to the Alabama Air
National Guard. He points out that Bush never transferred from the Texas Air
National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard. He remained in the Texas
Guard during his stay in Alabama. This was confirmed by the Texas Guard. And
Turnipseed added that Bush was never under his command or any other officer
in the Alabama Guard.
Turnipseed added that Bush was informed of the drill schedule of the Alabama
Guard as a courtesy so he could get credit for drills while in Alabama for
his service record in the Texas Guard. There was no compulsory
attendance.This was also confirmed by the Texas Guard.

Lt. Col. Campenelli addresses the charge that Bush defied an "order" to take
a flight physical:
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush
twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a
required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the
exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in
Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in
reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for
their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's
weekend drill assembly - the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves,
it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of
reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the
individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical.
Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force
until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a
flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its
date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not
confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to
which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver
is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific
unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm
"being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any
discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or
wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or
court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's
performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in
The Washington Post in 2000.

Baldilocks finds Campenelli's view of events is supported by her own Reserve
experience:
In my reserve incarnation, I was an Aeromedical Services Technician
(non-flying), whose primary peacetime purpose was to perform the
paraprofessional portion of the physical exam to flying personnel. That
entails, hearing exams, vision exams, vitals, blood work, immunizations,
other stuff, and, most pertinent to this subject, scheduling the exams.
So I know the colonel's part about the physicals to be true. We had pilots
(and other flight crew) miss physicals all the time, due to a whole range of
reasons (like not being on flying status for whatever reason, as was the
case with Lt. Bush). The only thing that will happen to them is that they
will be grounded, as Col. Campenni says. Not a big deal for a pilot with no
aircraft to fly in.
Also, I remember when the random drug test was instituted. At the onset of
the new drug-testing policy, they tested everyone in the Air Force. That was
the only time in which the test wasn't random. The implementation of the new
policy occurred nine months after I joined the active duty Air Force, in
1981.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

You got nothing. And the mainstream media should be ashamed for its
unprofessional and unethical failure to investigate this matter honestly and
fairly. Its one-sided coverage of this story amounts to little more than a
mindless parroting of Terry McAuliffe's latest talking points.

Media lackwits like Tina Brown have been condescending and needlessly
insulting to bloggers... oh, excuse me...Web charlatans:

You'd think "Buckhead," who first spotted the flaws in the documents, is the
cyberworld's Woodward and Bernstein. Now the conventional wisdom is that the
media will be kept honest and decent by an army of incorruptible amateur
gumshoes. In fact, cyberspace is populated by a coalition of political
obsessives and pundits on speed who get it wrong as much as they get it
right. It's just that they type so much they are bound to nail a story from
time to time.

(In other words, we're more fun than a barrel of monkeys banging on
typewriters. Thanks for the warm fuzzy, Tina.)

Seems to this web charletan that if a ragtag group of amateurs armed with
modems and laptops can find the news in smalltown newspapers and radio
stations, it's not too much to expect that professional journalists, with
the vast resources of the corporate media behind them, might be expected do
us one better. The truth is out there

99% of the game is showing up, guys.

Andy Asberry wrote in
:

The misconception is that the military documented everything and that
those documents are perfectly preserved in an archive. It just ain't
so!

So tell us something we don't know. All he has to do is come up with a
document or two that proves he did his duty. No one is interested how many
times he went to the head.

So the absence of documents only proves there are no documents.
Actually, it only proves that they haven't been found.

That's what they said the first time, then they found more documents, then
said it again, then found some more. Interesting, no?

By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727.

Ah, but you see, the difference here is that I don't _care_ if anyone here
believes that, because whether or not anyone here does is irrelevant to me.
He's in Mojave right now. If you want to know for sure, go ask him
yourself, or better yet, go ask the Zero-G people.

Juan

Richard Riley wrote in
news
Except the record that shows he got a dental exam at Dannelly Air
National Guard Base in Alabama on January 6, 1973.

Sure, Riley, he sneaked into the base to get his teeth fixed and that
proves he did his duty. Unhuh. I wonder why he avoided showing up at his
unit that day.

And retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun, who told AP "I saw him each
drill period. He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He
never complained about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was
doing in the Guard. He showed up on time and he left at the end of the
day."

One republican says that, no one else on his squadron, INCLUDING OTHER
REPUBLICANS can back that up. Riiiight.

Juan

"JDKAHN" wrote in
:

How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be
a shirker is beyond me.

He never flew the F-106, he flew the F-102, and he chose it because it
was pulled out of Vietnam in 1969. At least Kerry went to Vietnam and,
despite the barnyard animal sounds to the contrary, earned the medals he
got, which the Navy confirmed.

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville
Gazette weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and
commanders over Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and
Bush hater, therefore whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan
you are a classic Micheal Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says
everything.



Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

mercy snip

"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's
and took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed
to have 500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he
wasn't eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.

Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign a
piece of paper saying he did not want to go?

This is nothing but the sign of a yellow streak a mile long on a coward.

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here
and have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant
about even active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when
it comes to understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely
investigative journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin
experience to help them interpret these records?

No problem, all the Shrub has to do is produce them. Put up or shut up.

e was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time
position, for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct.
28, 1971, to Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from
the hangar where Bush performed drills.

So the Shrub came to get paid but none of his fellow flight officers saw
him show up. That's even WORSE than what's already been said!

Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
remember the precise dates.

So much for that cacameme story.

Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in
Montgomery would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work
with Bush during every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last
week that he saw Bush every drill time, which was one weekend each
month.

Was he wearing his special "Bush detector glasses" that no other flight
officer at the squadron was issued?

What a bunch of mindless bull****.

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
"JDKAHN" wrote in
:

How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be
a shirker is beyond me.

He never flew the F-106, he flew the F-102, and he chose it because it
was pulled out of Vietnam in 1969. At least Kerry went to Vietnam and,
despite the barnyard animal sounds to the contrary, earned the medals he
got, which the Navy confirmed.

Ah finger trouble I meant to type 102...

I recall a Boston Globe interview a blogger found, where Kerry talks about
going to Vietnam and volunteering for SB duty because they didn't get too
deeply into shooting situations doing coastal patrol. He said he wanted to
get close but not TOO close. Then they switched roles to the inland rivers
and he bugged out as soon as he could with some scratches, nicks and bits of
metal in his ass from his own grenades. Some hero. I don't believe there
are cases of any other officers abandoning their men like that so soon into
their tours. Maybe you can find a similar case?

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville
Gazette weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and
commanders over Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and
Bush hater, therefore whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan
you are a classic Micheal Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says
everything.



Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

mercy snip

"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's
and took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed
to have 500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he
wasn't eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.

Which he KNEW. If he wanted to go so bad to Vietnam, why did he sign a
piece of paper saying he did not want to go?

Not familiar with such a piece of paper. What is that?

This is nothing but the sign of a yellow streak a mile long on a coward.

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here
and have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant
about even active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when
it comes to understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely
investigative journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin
experience to help them interpret these records?

No problem, all the Shrub has to do is produce them. Put up or shut up.

e was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time
position, for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct.
28, 1971, to Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from
the hangar where Bush performed drills.

So the Shrub came to get paid but none of his fellow flight officers saw
him show up. That's even WORSE than what's already been said!

Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
remember the precise dates.

So much for that cacameme story.

Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?

Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in
Montgomery would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work
with Bush during every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last
week that he saw Bush every drill time, which was one weekend each
month.

Was he wearing his special "Bush detector glasses" that no other flight
officer at the squadron was issued?

Maybe he had Killian's secratary's mind reader psychic powers, where she
knew Killian's thoughts from 30 years ago! HAHAHAHAHA

What a bunch of mindless bull****.


So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in the
Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have good things
to say ON THE RECORD, are liars, and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades,
who say he is unfit and hate his guts, are also liars, but the old lady
Democrat that typed stuff for Killian, who recalls Killian's thoughts and
opinions about Bush which are contrary to the written record, trumps all
those people.... I see. I'm stumped. I give up. Such powerful logic
and insight is too much for me. You are a master of lost causes.

Best part of the Guard thing has been that many people had no idea Bush was
an ex fighter pilot and were quite impressed to find this out. Most people
intuitively know that stupid people generally don't succeed flying all
weather missions in 102s. And most people would not resent him serving
stateside any more than they resent active Air Force pilots who served out
their time in NORAD. Surely you don't think all pilots who served in NORAD
instead of Vietnam are shirkers do you????

Anyway, even if we accept your case that he wasn't in Alabama, nobody really
cares whether Bush appeared for some drills or not in the waning days of the
war when the air force and Guard were trying to unload a glut of pilots
anyway. I mean, lets compare... during this time your boy Kerry was busy
being a traitor meeting secretly with VC reps as a commssioned officer of
the Naval Reserve then coming back to lobby for their cause, something that
you don't dispute (you can't really, it's the documented truth), and that
was infintely more despicable than not having proof of attending some
completely redundant drills in '72 in Alabama.

How can you possibly support a candidate who was doing these things? Surely
you don't think the winter soldier smear, being a lobbyist for the North
Vietnamese at home, being a prop for the North to use against POWs, etc.,
was the right thing to do? He has never disavowed these things, never
apologized for them. For god's sake even Jane Fonda apologized to vets!!!!

In any case, I'm delighted that you accept the fact that Bush was a fighter
pilot and flew all those hours, and as a matter of fact accumulated over
three times the minimum requirement of Guard service points over 6 years,
including the minimum 50 point requirement in each of the last two years
when they no longer needed pilots anyway. Excellent. And he does have an
honorable discharge so he must have got the 50 points for his last year
somehow. Most lefties like M Moore simply claim he signed up and
disappeared at the start. This is progress.


This has been fun man. Very simulating. Thanks Juan.

In article , JDKAHN says...

Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not
remember the precise dates.

So much for that cacameme story.

Compared to your whole case based on the old lady Democrat?

That's all guys like jaun and zoom need ,just a glimmer and it trumps all other
evidence.
So let me get this straight... all of the people involved with Bush in the
Guard, his senior officers and comrades, all of which had/have good things
to say ON THE RECORD, are liars, and the 80% of Kerry's Swiftvet comrades,
who say he is unfit and hate his guts, are also liars, but the old lady
Democrat that typed stuff for Killian, who recalls Killian's thoughts and
opinions about Bush which are contrary to the written record, trumps all
those people.... I see. I'm stumped. I give up. Such powerful logic
and insight is too much for me. You are a master of lost causes.

He's had lots of practice defending zoom ...another example of jaun logic and
insight.Now it's 3 lost causes he's defended ...zoom,BD and now this. It's no
wonder he's trying to be a reporter.

And most people would not resent him serving
stateside any more than they resent active Air Force pilots who served out
their time in NORAD. Surely you don't think all pilots who served in NORAD
instead of Vietnam are shirkers do you????

In these peoples minds no other service counts unless it's kerry's.Every sin is
forgiven unless it's a conservative or Republican and everyone is a dummy
unless you vote democrat.


Anyway, even if we accept your case that he wasn't in Alabama, nobody really
cares whether Bush appeared for some drills or not in the waning days of the
war when the air force and Guard were trying to unload a glut of pilots
anyway. I mean, lets compare... during this time your boy Kerry was busy
being a traitor meeting secretly with VC reps as a commssioned officer of
the Naval Reserve then coming back to lobby for their cause, something that
you don't dispute (you can't really, it's the documented truth), and that
was infintely more despicable than not having proof of attending some
completely redundant drills in '72 in Alabama.

That's where I find kerry most repulsive,his trips to Paris while Americans were
still in the Hanoi Hilton and on the ground in Nam. He could have protested the
war and bitched about the Gov'ment but his description of our soldiers while
they were still afield is treason in my book.


How can you possibly support a candidate who was doing these things? Surely
you don't think the winter soldier smear, being a lobbyist for the North
Vietnamese at home, being a prop for the North to use against POWs, etc.,
was the right thing to do? He has never disavowed these things, never
apologized for them. For god's sake even Jane Fonda apologized to vets!!!!

Best as I can tell America has 3 traitors Benedict Arnold,Jane Fonda and John
Kerry. Klinton might still make the list after his total history is out.


In any case, I'm delighted that you accept the fact that Bush was a fighter
pilot and flew all those hours, and as a matter of fact accumulated over
three times the minimum requirement of Guard service points over 6 years,
including the minimum 50 point requirement in each of the last two years
when they no longer needed pilots anyway. Excellent. And he does have an
honorable discharge so he must have got the 50 points for his last year
somehow. Most lefties like M Moore simply claim he signed up and
disappeared at the start. This is progress.

Have you heard that the reason that kerry won't sign to release "all" his
records is that he just got his honorable discharge during the Klinton years?
I've been trying to find more data to see if this is true or an urban legend.

This has been fun man. Very simulating.

Yours and jauns dialog was an interesting study of the difference between a
logic and reasoned approach (yours) and the illogical,fragmented ,name calling
and chest thumping of the left (jaun).

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

Juan Jimenez wrote in message .. .
Andy Asberry wrote in
:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++snip++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By the way, do you have anything (verifiable documents) other than
your own crowing that proves Campbell is flying around in a 727.

Ah, but you see, the difference here is that I don't _care_ if anyone here
believes that, because whether or not anyone here does is irrelevant to me.
He's in Mojave right now. If you want to know for sure, go ask him
yourself, or better yet, go ask the Zero-G people.

Juan

yawn;

I would give about anything to meet that cowardly piece of garbage
face to face every time I tried he ran to the police or security. He
even wrote in US ravinator that he beat feet more than once from
me.Talk is cheap asshole what say you or the other ball less jerk and
I meet face to face at SnF next year.

Neither of you have credibility or balls.

Frank M.Hitlaw,Jakarta;