If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Apr 17, 10:52*am, gatt wrote:
WingFlaps wrote: Tell it to the insurance company or your passengers if you prang the landing because, say, you've never carried passengers in the back of a C-172 before and, say, you hit a windshear on final. The insurance company doesn't give a crap. Your not over gross by the name you land anyway. -Robert |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"gatt" wrote in message news:zKCdneYD7P5nGprVnZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@integraonlin e... tman wrote: Flown C172's for quite a while, and never had anybody in the back. Now I'm planning on quite a trip, with 2 pax and luggage. You shouldn't be scared, you should be confident. (And above all safe.) In more cavalier flying days I have done this once or twice, right at or slightly over gross, in a 172 on an ideal day. For the purpose of discussion let's assume you're going to do it. Where's your CG and how will it influence takeoff and climbout? What happens if the engine quits on departure? How much extra runway do you have, and what does your density altitude look like? An airplane that is overgross might still perform better in straight climbout than an undergross airplane on hot, humid day. If you've got 11,000 feet of runway ahead of you with the elevation at near sea level, and no obstacles to clear, and it's cold and dry, that will help. If you're going to be going over mountains or it's turbulent, you need to know what to expect. My biggest concern here would be the "never had anybody in back" factor. When you launch and land with four adults on board, even under gross it's a different feel. If you've experienced that and you already know what to expect with an airplane near max gross, you will be able to recognize how the airplane is handling differently once you're over gross. Without that previous experience it would be pretty tough to tell whether you're experiencing a situation caused by being over-gross, or something that feels normal with four adults on board. The additional stress and distraction on the PIC could be more of a factor than that placed on the airframe. Finally, I personally -hate- feeling like I'm a half-ass pilot or that I just put my pax at the edge of my envelope without their knowledge. If they're all aware of it and they understand, that's one thing, but if something happens you might end up feeling like a total heel, or worse. If I were going to do this flight I would run around the pattern a few times with pax in back so you get a feel for what's supposed to happen. Keep your airspeeds up, keep your pitch and bank rates low, watch your angle of attack (!!!), stay coordinated and fly like you're carrying a load of nitroglycerin. Work your CG figures for both takeoff and landing, and also empty in case you have to divert. If you're "scared" you're more likely make mistakes. Having said all that, I don't think I'd make the flight myself. But I have before, in a 172 at maybe 40lbs over gross, and nothing broke. -c Gatt, read this on a piper but very similer on a 172. http://aircraftdelivery.net/ferrypil...nkedpermit.pdf http://aircraftdelivery.net/ferrypil...nkedpermit.pdf |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Apr 17, 11:15*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
tman writes: Risky? http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...-12-Overloaded... That video has nothing to do with the OP's question. Clearly you are just trolling. -Robert |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
tman wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote: Tell you what; instead of my "advising you" on what to do specifically with this flight, let me suggest to you that you run a weight and balance for this aircraft at full tanks, THEN run the same pax and baggage loading figuring 1/4 tanks, just to see what this does to the cg. I did. CG is pretty much center of the acceptable range. C172 410lbs in the front seats, 170lbs in the back, 30lbs in the baggage area, fuel to tabs -- CG is "good". Same situation, empty fuel. CG good too. A lot of ppl are talking about CG issues. Hey maybe I better check my math before I fly this thing! For your scenario, as long as the fuel burn doesn't alter the cg to a dangerous area your main concern is the over gross condition. I should note that you might well be flying an aircraft down the line someday where the fuel burn COULD be a cg altering consideration. This was why I had you do both W&B :-) There are several ways to approach this situation and all of them are relevant. The prime condition for me would be the insurance condition. You should consider that in the event of an accident...ANY accident, even one not involving the over gross condition, the aircraft insurance could most certainly become an issue post accident because of the over gross condition. Your training and skill at handling an over gross airplane, even one "just a tad over gross" should be a consideration. As PIC, you are asking your Pax to fly with you in an aircraft that is over gross at takeoff; something that you might wish to reconsider. Bottom line for me advice wise is that for some pilots, the airplane won't necessarily fall out of the sky at 40lbs over gross, but are you one of these pilots, and secondly, have you considered the rest of the above factors? The decision as PIC is yours. Make it a wise one. -- Dudley Henriques |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message ... gatt wrote: Tell it to the insurance company or your passengers if you prang the landing because, say, you've never carried passengers in the back of a C-172 before and, say, you hit a windshear on final. Ferry pilots don't carry unwitting passengers in back when they're overgross. They might if they hadn't already loaded it to capacity with fuel. Ferrying operations are a good example of flying overgrossed successfully. Unfortunately, the cabin is usually stuffed with fuel bladders so there's no room for passengers unless they want to ride outside in the smoking section. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com We as ferry pilots have to explain we are overgross and out contents to all passengers if allowed by FAA, you know every now and then a client wishes to ride along most are not pilots or just a private. |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
|
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:49:24 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote: Now this is Over Gross.... http://www.ferrypilotservice.com/overgross.jpg You look like you're making a recycling run. G |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
NW_Pilot wrote:
Now this is Over Gross.... http://www.ferrypilotservice.com/overgross.jpg Exposure suit? How effective is that thing? I had to wear one of those damn Navy Poopy suits flying a T38 out of NATC Pax River. If I had to go into the Chesapeake Bay in December, I think the damn thing gave me an extra 5 minutes before I froze to death. Severely restricted stick travel as well and took a half hour to get into! :-)) -- Dudley Henriques |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
At this point in the thread I'd be very curious to find out the actual
Real World weight of everything....as opposed to the original posters assumption's. Have the buddies get on a scale, with clothes and shoes on, watches, wallets keys, a full stomach a few cups of coffee each.... Do the same for the luggage. Don't forget to add all the extra headsets, camera's, water bottles..... It might be a useful example for all reading. I'd almost guarantee it's far heavier than the numbers being used. I can't tell you how many times people show up at the field for a ride and they say they weigh 200 and they easily have 30 or 40 lbs on me and I'm 200!!! doug |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Apr 18, 6:44 am, Michael wrote:
On Apr 17, 1:54 pm, WingFlaps wrote: Are you saying you don't do a MAUW test flight in your training? That is exactly what he is saying. It's also pretty normal these days to get a license in a 4-seater (Skyhawk or Warrior) without ever having anyone in the back seat or coming anywhere near gross weight. Not here not ever. You get a rating you have to demonstrate at least one MAUW circuit. And the idea of crosscountry flying without weighing the pax is foolish to say the least |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
My wife getting scared | Paul Tomblin | Piloting | 271 | October 11th 07 08:19 PM |
Scared of mid-airs | Frode Berg | Piloting | 355 | August 20th 06 05:27 PM |
UBL wants a truce - he's scared of the CIA UAV | John Doe | Aviation Marketplace | 1 | January 19th 06 08:58 PM |
Max gross weight | Chris | Piloting | 21 | October 5th 04 08:22 PM |
Scared and trigger-happy | John Galt | Military Aviation | 5 | January 31st 04 12:11 AM |