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Wanting to start a new glider club



 
 
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  #81  
Old January 5th 19, 12:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
What an ingenious idea!Â* I'll bet the price difference between the self
launch version and a tug would make that an attractive proposition.

On 1/4/2019 2:12 AM, Jim White wrote:
Consider buying a self launching 21. More expensive but you will not
require a tug or tuggie to operate it.


Seems in Jan 2018 it was 90100 euro for a traditional ASK-21 and 153600 euro for the self-launcher, a 63500 euro or $72362 difference. That's right in the range that 235 Pawnees go for with lowish time engines. I don't know how the hourly running costs would compare over time.
  #82  
Old January 5th 19, 03:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

We just went to one of our local banks. Told them we wanted to finance an aircraft and stipulated that we wanted a loan where we could choose to just pay interest if we wanted. I seem to remember that it was Suntrust Bank. They were OK with that. I think we paid maybe $1500 down on a Ka7 that was going for around $8000. Don’t remember the interest rate. Lea County State Bank in Hobbs, NM specializes in glider loans (thanks to their relationship with SSA). They would probably be the logical place to start.
  #83  
Old January 5th 19, 04:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 6:16:48 PM UTC-8, WB wrote:
We just went to one of our local banks. Told them we wanted to finance an aircraft and stipulated that we wanted a loan where we could choose to just pay interest if we wanted. I seem to remember that it was Suntrust Bank. They were OK with that. I think we paid maybe $1500 down on a Ka7 that was going for around $8000. Don’t remember the interest rate. Lea County State Bank in Hobbs, NM specializes in glider loans (thanks to their relationship with SSA). They would probably be the logical place to start.


In New Zealand, the national gliding organisation (http://gliding.co.nz/) provides low interest long term loans for clubs to buy gliders.

In my own club we've been fortunate to have one or two reasonably wealthy members who also make low interest loans to the club, for example for the two DG1000 Club gliders purchased in the mid 2000's, and for the new Skylaunch winch purchased two years ago.

  #84  
Old January 5th 19, 04:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 7:16:48 PM UTC-7, WB wrote:
We just went to one of our local banks. Told them we wanted to finance an aircraft and stipulated that we wanted a loan where we could choose to just pay interest if we wanted. I seem to remember that it was Suntrust Bank. They were OK with that. I think we paid maybe $1500 down on a Ka7 that was going for around $8000. Don’t remember the interest rate. Lea County State Bank in Hobbs, NM specializes in glider loans (thanks to their relationship with SSA). They would probably be the logical place to start.


Thanks. I'll look into those two options.

On a separate note: how was the Ka7 as a first club two-seater? I realize that visibility from the rear seat is sub-optimal, but was it an OK glider to start with, for the money? I've been given a Ka8, which I intend to restore and use as a club glider, but it could only be used for licensed glider pilots, and right now, there are only two of us in the area.
  #85  
Old January 5th 19, 09:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
Hi everyone

I just started glider flying lessons and I'M HOOKED!!! Unfortunately, the closest glider club is 3:45 hr drive away. I also live in an area that looks to me to be perfect for ridge soaring, with a range of mountains facing the west that runs for at least 85 miles, and possibly longer. We have an airport close by with a 4800' runway, about 2-3 miles west of the mountains. A friend is a CFI and A&P, and is interested in getting his "glider ticket" as well. There are a few other folks in the area that have expressed varying interest in flying gliders as well. But as it currently stands, no one (except one possible individual that I haven't yet talked to) in the area actually flies gliders. My friend and I have talked about the possibility of starting a local club. What would be the best way to go about doing this?


I have been reading all the ideas coming from the gallery and people are getting real creative these days. Two years ago myself and another got together in a hangar and said that we were going to start a glider club. We did exactly that, please read July 2018 Soaring magazine and you will get a few of the details. Today we are approaching 80 members, more are showing up almost every weekend to see the activity and X52.
Let me make a few suggestions, #1 you do not need fancy gliders to start, #2 build it and they will come! We started with a couple of members who made an investment in equipment and leased it back to the club. Our initial package was one tow plane and two gliders. Our primary trainer was the 233, the next ship was a 1-26. I bought a Pawnee to get us going and since that time our growth and additional gliders has been steady.
We just completed our second year and we surpassed the 1000 tow mark for the year, not bad!
You will need help, this is not a one person gig. Make sure you start off right, and try to avoid the roadblocks along the way, trust me, there will be plenty. Remember, you are not a commercial operation, clubs are different.. Don't be surprised if I show up there and become a member, Florida is getting too hot during the summer for this weathered old guy.
  #86  
Old January 7th 19, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Posts: 236
Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 9:57:07 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 7:16:48 PM UTC-7, WB wrote:
We just went to one of our local banks. Told them we wanted to finance an aircraft and stipulated that we wanted a loan where we could choose to just pay interest if we wanted. I seem to remember that it was Suntrust Bank.. They were OK with that. I think we paid maybe $1500 down on a Ka7 that was going for around $8000. Don’t remember the interest rate. Lea County State Bank in Hobbs, NM specializes in glider loans (thanks to their relationship with SSA). They would probably be the logical place to start.


Thanks. I'll look into those two options.

On a separate note: how was the Ka7 as a first club two-seater? I realize that visibility from the rear seat is sub-optimal, but was it an OK glider to start with, for the money? I've been given a Ka8, which I intend to restore and use as a club glider, but it could only be used for licensed glider pilots, and right now, there are only two of us in the area.


We currently use a Ka7 as our primary trainer. The Ka7 is fine trainer, but getting a little old. There have been a couple of catastrophic failures of Ka7 wings in the past few years, so if you are looking at a Ka7, have it carefully inspected by someone who knows wood aircraft. Apparently, compression damage in the wings spars is the thing to look out for. Also, be careful about the condition of the fabric. The factory only used adhesive with no rib stitching to attach the wing fabric. I know of one Ka7 that lost most of the fabric off the bottom of one wing in flight. Luckily, the top fabric held and a safe landing was made. That Ka7 now has new, rib stitched covering on the wings. Ka7's ground launch very well, but remember that ground launching can put quite a lot of stress on the wings if not done correctly. As a trainer, the Ka7 will do a better job of training students for transition to high performance gliders than a 2-33, however, it will take students a few more flights to solo the Ka7 than it would the 2-33. Assuming it's airworthy, one major downside to a Ka-7 is the requirement to have a dry place to store it, preferably a hangar where it can be kept assembled. The other problem is that the front cockpit is kinda small for the "modern physique". Ka8's are the logical single place glider to complement the Ka7. We have 2 Ka8's now that are flown by everyone including solo students. We also have a fiberglass 2 seater (Scheibe SF-34), and a Standard Cirrus reserved for rated pilots.
  #87  
Old January 10th 19, 08:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

Hopefully I’ll have a Ka8b flyable this summer.

What specifically would be a cheap rope alternative to Dyneema (minus the longevity)? Someone mentioned Dacron. Anything more specific?
  #88  
Old January 10th 19, 06:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Posts: 236
Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 1:00:05 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
Hopefully I’ll have a Ka8b flyable this summer.

What specifically would be a cheap rope alternative to Dyneema (minus the longevity)? Someone mentioned Dacron. Anything more specific?


You can get the equivalent to Dyneema from China fairly cheap. We used Dacron (3/8 inch, I think) for quite a while. We had 4000' and stored it on a surplus wooden cable reel mounted on a trailer. Dyneema (Spectra) is light enough and less bulky so you don't need a big reel.
  #89  
Old January 11th 19, 01:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Posts: 354
Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 10:05:32 AM UTC-7, WB wrote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 1:00:05 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
Hopefully I’ll have a Ka8b flyable this summer.

What specifically would be a cheap rope alternative to Dyneema (minus the longevity)? Someone mentioned Dacron. Anything more specific?


You can get the equivalent to Dyneema from China fairly cheap. We used Dacron (3/8 inch, I think) for quite a while. We had 4000' and stored it on a surplus wooden cable reel mounted on a trailer. Dyneema (Spectra) is light enough and less bulky so you don't need a big reel.


Where did you find a 4000' length of 3/8" Dacron rope, and how much did it cost?
  #90  
Old January 11th 19, 02:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Default Wanting to start a new glider club

On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 10:05:32 AM UTC-7, WB wrote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 1:00:05 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
Hopefully I’ll have a Ka8b flyable this summer.

What specifically would be a cheap rope alternative to Dyneema (minus the longevity)? Someone mentioned Dacron. Anything more specific?


You can get the equivalent to Dyneema from China fairly cheap. We used Dacron (3/8 inch, I think) for quite a while. We had 4000' and stored it on a surplus wooden cable reel mounted on a trailer. Dyneema (Spectra) is light enough and less bulky so you don't need a big reel.


One of these will hold 6000ft of 3/16" Amsteel Blue and can be cranked readily if there are one or two helping walk in the rope.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...3839_200623839

The cheaper Dyneema from China may be a blend of Dyneema SK65/SK75 fibers. Amsteel Blue is Dyneema SK75. Haven't had time to study the differences yet.

Frank Whiteley

 




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