Pirep: Concorde RG battery and warranty

Bought my 172N 10 years ago: had a new Gill 24V lead/acid battery in
it. Three years later, cranking speed diminished slightly, so in goes a
new one. Three years later, another one. Hmmmm. Batteries must last
about three years. Arguing with success, I got one of them thar RG
Concordes from Aircraft Spruce when the last Gill slowed down. After a
little less than a year, cranking speed diminished slightly. Then
stopped altogether. Cowl off and on for charger hook-up several (too
many) times. PITA Called Aircraft Spruce. No problem; just send
documentation that came with battery (o.k.) and copy of log books. Huh?
I didn't have to send copies of the logbooks when I gave my credit card
number to buy the battery. Logbook copying, besides being none of their
business, is onerous, time consuming, and burdensome. So fukit; called
Sky Ranch for another Gill. Life back to normal.
I guess I'm just gettin' old and cranky. Flame away if I'm too far
beyond left field.

Blue Skies
N5217D based HTH

NVArt wrote:
Bought my 172N 10 years ago: had a new Gill 24V lead/acid battery in

My Gill's have lasted about 5 years each. They're easy enough to
change in the Navion and not that expensive. The only stupidity
is neither Gill or Concorde has a PMA/STC for the Navion (whose
type certificate calls out a now non-existant 1950's EXIDE battery).
So everybody has to submit a 337 for field approval or just plays
don't ask don't tell with the FAA.

Shocked. I'm SHOCKED to even think you would suggest doing this with the
FAA.

{;-)

Jim


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

So everybody has to submit a 337 for field approval or just plays
don't ask don't tell with the FAA.

Pretty typical for any aircraft battery.

There has been alot of discussion about this on the Cardinal owners
site lately. It appears that the RG batteries are good only if you fly
alot, flight schools are good places for them. If flown infrequently
(less than once a week)then old style wet cells last longer.

Regards,
Bruce Cunningham
N30464




NVArt wrote:
Bought my 172N 10 years ago: had a new Gill 24V lead/acid battery in
it. Three years later, cranking speed diminished slightly, so in goes
a
new one. Three years later, another one. Hmmmm. Batteries must last
about three years. Arguing with success, I got one of them thar RG
Concordes from Aircraft Spruce when the last Gill slowed down. After
a
little less than a year, cranking speed diminished slightly. Then
stopped altogether. Cowl off and on for charger hook-up several (too
many) times. PITA Called Aircraft Spruce. No problem; just send
documentation that came with battery (o.k.) and copy of log books.
Huh?
I didn't have to send copies of the logbooks when I gave my credit
card
number to buy the battery. Logbook copying, besides being none of
their
business, is onerous, time consuming, and burdensome. So fukit;
called
Sky Ranch for another Gill. Life back to normal.
I guess I'm just gettin' old and cranky. Flame away if I'm too far
beyond left field.

Blue Skies
N5217D based HTH

On 18 May 2005 18:40:28 -0700, wrote:

There has been alot of discussion about this on the Cardinal owners
site lately. It appears that the RG batteries are good only if you fly
alot, flight schools are good places for them. If flown infrequently
(less than once a week)then old style wet cells last longer.

Dunno. Had an RG in the Fly Baby, but only fly it 35 hours a year or so.
Replaced it after three years when I began having starting problems, but turns
out it wasn't the battery's fault (bad starter clutch).

Put in one of the Odyssey dry cells. Less weight, smaller, cost about the same.
Working fine, turns the engine nicely, but it's only been a year and a half.

Ron Wanttaja

I have no personal experience with them. Several Cardinal owners have
had problems after a year or so, just like the OP. Many have gone back
to the wet cells. YMMV.

On 18 May 2005 18:40:28 -0700, wrote:

There has been alot of discussion about this on the Cardinal owners
site lately. It appears that the RG batteries are good only if you fly
alot, flight schools are good places for them. If flown infrequently
(less than once a week)then old style wet cells last longer.

Have more experience with Concorde RG's than I really want to think
about, in both piston and turbine apps.

Initially, they were an extremely cost-effective alternative to ni-cad
main batteries for turbine engine starts. Use 'em for a year and throw
them away. The cost has steadily increased over the years almost to
the point of being prohibitive in turbine apps.

If they are used infrequently, they can lose capacity in less than
12-18 months. If they are allowed to sit on the shelf without periodic
boost charging they will tend to have lower capacity/service life
after they are installed. It is important to note the manufacturing
date and shelf service label before installing them.

High utilization (engine start cycles more than operating hours) can
cause them to lose capacity in less than 12-14 months.

Leaving the master switch on and allowing them to fully discharge can
cause them to lose capacity at any point during their service life.

The real killer is excessive charging voltage. The Concorde
recommendations for charging voltage vs. battery operating temperature
can help extend service life. In some cases, due to AMM requirements
this is not an option.

The basic concept of the RG battery is that the battery is filled with
electrolyte, allowed to sit, and the electrolyte drained. The
electrolyte that has soaked into the inner workings is sufficient to
keep things working BUT excessive charging voltage will literally dry
out the plates. Once the electrolyte supply within the battery is
reduced, capacity is reduced.

It is a vicious circle- as the electrolyte supply is gradually
reduced, the operating temp within the battery increases-increasing
the rate the electrolyte is depleted.

A valve allows the pressure produced from "over" charging to escape,
but chemically treated pad renders the escaping gas free from
corrosive elements.

Please don't ask what happens if you get a RG battery that they forgot
to drain the electrolyte out of...my policy (now) is to weigh an RG
battery before I install it.

Back to the original poster, I really don't consider Concorde asking
to see a copy of the original maintenance record entry as verification
of install date excessively invasive.

RST Engineering wrote:
Shocked. I'm SHOCKED to even think you would suggest doing this ....

In your business, I expect you get shocked a lot. :-)

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

why is it that all the electricians I know are all nick-named smokey or
sparky???????



R. Burns


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:SmUie.9668$E05.4514@trndny09...
RST Engineering wrote:
Shocked. I'm SHOCKED to even think you would suggest doing this ....

In your business, I expect you get shocked a lot. :-)

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.