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ASW-19 Maximum Weight



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 15th 18, 10:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ouroboros
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Hello. I'm looking for a sailplane with my partner and we've come across a very nice ASW-19 that we are interested in. The aircraft has a maximum pilot weight of 196 pounds, which my partner just barely squeaks under with a parachute and will probably be over with drinking water and any other baggage. After reviewing the weight and balance documents, we noticed they were using 805 pounds as the max gross weight, but the manual states 899 pounds.

Further digging turned up the type certificate data sheet, which also shows 805 pounds as the maximum weight without water. Does anyone know why the FAA certified the aircraft with a lower max gross weight than stated in the manual? How are other owners dealing with this? If we took the glider experimental, would we be able to use the maximum gross number in the manual instead of the type certificate?
  #2  
Old October 15th 18, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 5:32:29 PM UTC-4, Ouroboros wrote:
Hello. I'm looking for a sailplane with my partner and we've come across a very nice ASW-19 that we are interested in. The aircraft has a maximum pilot weight of 196 pounds, which my partner just barely squeaks under with a parachute and will probably be over with drinking water and any other baggage. After reviewing the weight and balance documents, we noticed they were using 805 pounds as the max gross weight, but the manual states 899 pounds..

Further digging turned up the type certificate data sheet, which also shows 805 pounds as the maximum weight without water. Does anyone know why the FAA certified the aircraft with a lower max gross weight than stated in the manual? How are other owners dealing with this? If we took the glider experimental, would we be able to use the maximum gross number in the manual instead of the type certificate?


Likely the max pilot weight was determined by the maximum weight of non lifting components.
Operating limitations for production gliders include the same weight and other operating limitations as standard. They are pulled from the flight manual.
UH
  #3  
Old October 15th 18, 10:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Has the glider had any repairs that upped the empty weight? My ASW19 can take up to 258# pilot and chute, with 10#s of weight in the tail.

The ASW19 is convertible to the 19B with some mods; brake moved to spoiler handle, friction trim, and Tost release support bolts, if my memory serves correctly.

Paul A.
Jupiter, Fl
  #4  
Old October 15th 18, 11:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:52:19 PM UTC-6, Paul Agnew wrote:
Has the glider had any repairs that upped the empty weight? My ASW19 can take up to 258# pilot and chute, with 10#s of weight in the tail.

The ASW19 is convertible to the 19B with some mods; brake moved to spoiler handle, friction trim, and Tost release support bolts, if my memory serves correctly.

Paul A.
Jupiter, Fl


The glider did have a gear up landing some time ago. It was also refinished at some point. The new empty weight is 609 pounds.

I'm still not understanding where this 805 number is coming from. Like UH, we initially thought the limit was because of the limit for non lifting parts, but neither of the two weight and balance documents we saw for the aircraft list what the non lifting parts actually weigh. Is it possible to somehow combine the max gross limit and non lifting part limit to come up with 805 pounds? I don't see how it is.

The type certificate data sheet also makes no mention of max weight of non lifting parts. I'm very confused.

Here is a direct link to the type certificate data sheet:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3befadc9f249ca8d8625748e0055f922/$FILE/G36eu.PDF
  #5  
Old October 15th 18, 11:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ouroboros
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 4:18:48 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:52:19 PM UTC-6, Paul Agnew wrote:
Has the glider had any repairs that upped the empty weight? My ASW19 can take up to 258# pilot and chute, with 10#s of weight in the tail.

The ASW19 is convertible to the 19B with some mods; brake moved to spoiler handle, friction trim, and Tost release support bolts, if my memory serves correctly.

Paul A.
Jupiter, Fl


The glider did have a gear up landing some time ago. It was also refinished at some point. The new empty weight is 609 pounds.

I'm still not understanding where this 805 number is coming from. Like UH, we initially thought the limit was because of the limit for non lifting parts, but neither of the two weight and balance documents we saw for the aircraft list what the non lifting parts actually weigh. Is it possible to somehow combine the max gross limit and non lifting part limit to come up with 805 pounds? I don't see how it is.

The type certificate data sheet also makes no mention of max weight of non lifting parts. I'm very confused.

Here is a direct link to the type certificate data sheet:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3befadc9f249ca8d8625748e0055f922/$FILE/G36eu.PDF


Oops. Wrong account. That last post was me.
  #6  
Old October 15th 18, 11:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

You may do structural damage if you exceed the max wt of non lifting surfaces when flying at or above rough air redline? So, back off on rough air redline! I have done this for years, most G-103's are in this boat,.............don't fly it faster than 100 knots!
Flame suit on and ready for all you reg-mangers to shower me with chapter and verse quotes.
JJ
  #7  
Old October 16th 18, 01:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Think of it this way; at 805 lbs, the wing is designed to bend up to a certain amount before it is damaged (or departs). If you add water ballast to go to 900 (ASW-19) or 1000 (ASW-19B) lbs, the weight of that water resists this bending, therefore, you can weigh more before damage occurs. Some gliders, with inner and outer tanks (LS-8 18 comes to mind) the POH/FM specifies which tanks should be filled in the case of partial water loads - presumably for the same reason. I have heard the argument that the incompressible nature of water keeps the tank (and wing) from deforming, adding strength, but looking at open class gliders, the wings do seem to bend!

The difference between max weight with and without water ballast has nothing to do with the max weight of non-lifting parts. That defines the load on the wing attachment to resist the bending. The difference between max weight with and without water just changes the bending of the wing.

BGA data sheet has max weight of non-lifting parts, for your info: https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-con...2114_asw19.pdf .

If you have a pilot max weight of 196 lbs you may be wise to do a new weight and balance. There may be some lead in there somewhere...

  #8  
Old October 16th 18, 03:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Opitz
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

At 21:52 15 October 2018, Paul Agnew wrote:
Has the glider had any repairs that upped the empty weight? My

ASW19 can
take up to 258# pilot and chute, with 10#s of weight in the tail.

The ASW19 is convertible to the 19B with some mods; brake moved

to spoiler
handle, friction trim, and Tost release support bolts, if my memory

serves
correctly.

Paul A.
Jupiter, Fl


I had a -19 for about 5 years from 1978-1983. I was able to convert
it to the B model as Paul mentions and also installed the factory 2 tier
dive brakes. Paul is correct that if you modify it to a B, you will get a
higher max allowable gross weight. It goes from 408 Kg to 454 Kg,
or 898 Lbs to 999 Lbs. See the Schleicher ASW-19 page:
https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/...gzeuge/asw-19-
asw-19-b/
If you buy this glider, I suggest you convert it to the B version and
add the 2 tier dive brakes if it doesn't have them as well. The
Germans also have an instrument panel / canopy mod which attaches
the panel to the lift up canopy to make cockpit entry and exit easier.

RO


  #9  
Old October 16th 18, 05:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-7, Ouroboros wrote:
Hello. I'm looking for a sailplane with my partner and we've come across a very nice ASW-19 that we are interested in. The aircraft has a maximum pilot weight of 196 pounds, which my partner just barely squeaks under with a parachute and will probably be over with drinking water and any other baggage. After reviewing the weight and balance documents, we noticed they were using 805 pounds as the max gross weight, but the manual states 899 pounds..

Further digging turned up the type certificate data sheet, which also shows 805 pounds as the maximum weight without water. Does anyone know why the FAA certified the aircraft with a lower max gross weight than stated in the manual? How are other owners dealing with this? If we took the glider experimental, would we be able to use the maximum gross number in the manual instead of the type certificate?


Is this a standard category ASW19? If so, you might consider switching to experimental category which would relieve you of the 805 lb limitation (this must be in error, but is probably more trouble than its worth to get it corrected).
BTW, I owned a 19 for many years and was heavier than your partner. It was registered experimental.

Tom
  #10  
Old October 16th 18, 07:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ouroboros
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Posts: 13
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Dan: That makes sense. Thanks. We will definitely be looking for excess weight in the tail. Any idea where one might put such weight?

Michael: I see the TN on Schliechers website, but the TCDS says that the max weight without water is the same for both ASW-19 and ASW-19b, so I don't think that will help me.

Tom: Yes. This glider has a standard certificate. I find it hard to believe that a mistake like that could remain unchanged for so many years!
 




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