Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh

Jim,

Don't get me wrong, I certainly appreciate them and the sacrifices of
those who operated them. The vaccuum tube computer was an important
invention in history too and should be preserved. However, it would be
a mere passing curiosity at today's Consumer Electornics Show for
instance.

It's not that they are not important, but that for me _personally_ they
do not hold my interest. They apparently interest plenty of other
people and that's fine.... I'll go look at the Cirrus and Eclipse
exhibits during that part of the airshow!

--Dan



CB wrote:
Jim,

Most of the warbirds are classed as Experimental. By definition, they
are "our own" as much as the squadrons of glass-cockpit RVs and
Lancairs and the increasingly-rare builder-designed or even plans-built
birds.

Aviation - especially Experimental aviation, VERY especially
high-density Experimental aviation - is a high-risk endeavor.
Situational awareness is never perfect. Accidents DO happen.

A good many T-6 drivers may be hot-doggers. The waddling TBM doesn't
lend itself to that sort of attitude, though. Having seen TBMs and RVs
up close, though, I can understand how it might be hard to see an RV
from a TBM - especially if it was close-aboard.

To the under-30 crowd who "can't relate" to WW2 aircraft, I
respectfully submit the observation that if not for those aircraft -
and the men and women (now in their 80s if they're alive at all) who
built, maintained, and flew them - you would almost certainly not be
reading this post today. Totalitarian states do not permit
experimental aviation.

Those "ancient clattertraps" serve to remind us that freedom such as we
enjoy is not - has never been, will never be - free.

-Corrie

RST Engineering wrote:
So this afternoon, one of the WWII warbird people who has more money than
good sense, and who never learned how to clear the taxiway in front of his
aircraft, killed one of our own. There has to be some sort of payback for
this sort of stupidity.

Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.

Jim

RST,

Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.


Great idea. GA is small enough to be threatened from all sides, so we
should definitely start the in-fighting and make it even smaller by
ourselves. Yep. Sounds great. For the airlines.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

[snip]
So this afternoon, one of the WWII warbird people who has more money than
good sense, and who never learned how to clear the taxiway in front of his
aircraft, killed one of our own. There has to be some sort of payback for
this sort of stupidity.

Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.

From this post and others, sounds like everyone would be better served
to keep stupid pilots from Oshkosh. But how to do that? There's the rub, eh?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Bob,

From this post and others, sounds like everyone would be better served
to keep stupid pilots from Oshkosh.


And it sounds like everyone posting is not part of that group gd&r.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In a previous article, Bob Noel said:
From this post and others, sounds like everyone would be better served
to keep stupid pilots from Oshkosh. But how to do that? There's the rub, eh?

I spent a few hours listening on the scanner, and one thing that struck me
is that the tower people were *way* too accomodating. We heard people just
call in 5 miles out from any which direction, not having followed the
Ripon-Fisk arrival route, and instead of telling them to go away and come
back when they had read the NOTAM, tower just slotted them in and welcomed
them to Oshkosh. Other people reading back tower instructions, people
landing on the threshold instead of their assigned dots, etc. And tower
just worked around the stupidity. Not much incentive for you to study the
NOTAM and practice spot landings for a week if being fat, dumb and happy
gets your a faster arrival.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died. -- Steven Wright

The best airshows and flyins I've been to...have been those without
warbirds. Furthermore I'm more than tired of the worship demanded of
the entire WWII thing. Yes, they did good. Now can we puh-leeeze
move on??

Having said that, I know there are those who like the warbirds and the
worshipful attitude. And a huge airshow/flyin like Airventure should
have them as part of the complete package. But they should definitely
be segregrated from GA arrivals and departures.

RST Engineering wrote:
I'm prejudiced. Of course I'm prejudiced. In 5000+ flight hours, I've
never come as close to a midair as I did at Oshkosh 1999. Oshkosh Tower:
"BlueOnBlue Cessna, number three for runway 27. Ercoupe put it on the
numbers. Flight of three T6s, cross over runway 27, right downwind for
runway 27, caution the Cessna at the gravel pit."

(Warbird flight leader) "OK fellers, let's show them what a warbird arrival
is like."

The Cessna is looking, looking, and turns downwind. The copilot screams,
"Oh, my God " and the pilot turns hard left, only to see two wings perhaps
fifty feet below. Tower tells warbirds that they nearly had a midair with a
Cessna. Warbird flight leader, "Then tell tell the little b@$+@rd to get
out of our way."


Is there more to this story, like what the FAA or the folks at Oshkosh
had to say to the pilot?

If it were up to me, I'd get escort him off the premises and get a
TRO forbidding him from setting foot there again. If he wanted his
plane back, he could send somebody else to fly or truck it out.

--

FF

wrote:


Totalitarian states do not permit experimental aviation.

Not true. The German Nazi regime of the 1930s loved experimental aviation
(and experimental rocketry), they even gave financial support. A lot of the
amateur designers and pilots then went on to play a big part in the Second
World War. The contemporary British government tried everything it could to
stop amateurs getting into the air.

As a result, surviving the Battle of Britain (1940) was as much a matter of
luck as judgment. Later on we had to put up with bombs mysteriously falling
out of the sky (the V2 long range rocket). If the war in Europe had gone on
much longer the first man in space would have been a German piloting a
two-stage missile to New York.

BTW this difference in attitude between British and German governments
continues to this day. This explains why German radio hams are putting
together a Mars lander, and we can't fly a suitably-equipped Lancair in IFR.

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
From this post and others, sounds like everyone would be better served
to keep stupid pilots from Oshkosh. But how to do that? There's the rub,
eh?

As I said in my previous post to this thread, assuming the various
descriptions of the situation at Oshkosh are accurate (and there's enough
similar ones to have every reason to believe they are), the first step would
be for the FAA staff (controllers and inspectors) to stop putting up with
the stupid pilots.

Pilots who can't comply with the published and transmitted instructions
should be refused entry into the Class D, never mind allowed a landing
clearance, and FAA inspectors should be filing actions where pilots are
actually in violation of the FARs.

Pete

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

I've about had it with the arrogant warbird *******s. The only reason that
there are warbirds at Oshkosh is that Pope Paul flew a warbird and wanted
to invite his cronies.


One might argue that puddle-jumping Cessnas have no place at Oshkosh, after
all, how many people go there to look at lines of parked Skyhawks and
Cherokees?




Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.



Speak for yourself.
Looks like Pope Paul has been replaced by Lord jim.