2nd Lesson

Bob Moore writes:

Sure as hell does...try teaching a student to read before he
learns the alphabet. He may memorize the book, but still does
not know how to read.

Public schools did that for decades in the US. Of course, they
produced several generations of illiterates in consequence.

However, in this case, it's not clear that one lesson is a
prerequisite for another. Must one learn to fly patterns before
learning to land? (Or vice versa?)

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TxSrv writes:

Always precede total BS with "may be." Makes it a safe
statement. But if you've never undergone any flight training,
much less have been a CFI, nor even ridden in a light GA
aircraft, you should accept the reality of how stupid your posts are.

The principles I've described are valid for any type of teaching.

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As usual you know not of what you speak. Flight training needs to be
taught in a somewhat stringent order. The syllabus is created in a
specific way in order for the student to grasp the concepts and progress
through the training with a minimum of cash being sucked out of the
students wallet. Any CFI's out there care to expand on this?

Real flying is quite unlike the simulator the you play with. Real flying
does not come with a pause button if things get hairy. You must crawl
before you walk. Walk before you run ect..

As far as the public schools here in the US go... How would you know how
they teach here? Did you ever attend a US public school? I for one had
to learn the alphabet before I started reading.

You seem to have a habit of throwing out a bunch of BS answers for
subjects you have no experience in. It is quite incredible to observe
actually.

You obviously are a troll and this is the last time I'll waste
keystrokes on you.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Mxsmanic wrote:
Bob Moore writes:


Sure as hell does...try teaching a student to read before he
learns the alphabet. He may memorize the book, but still does
not know how to read.


Public schools did that for decades in the US. Of course, they
produced several generations of illiterates in consequence.

However, in this case, it's not clear that one lesson is a
prerequisite for another. Must one learn to fly patterns before
learning to land? (Or vice versa?)

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
30 degrees angle of bank is not a steep turn, 45-60 degrees is.
REF...FAA Airplane Flying Handbook 9-1..
The steep turn maneuver consists of a turn in either
direction, using a bank angle between 45 to 60°. This
will cause an overbanking tendency during which
maximum turning performance is attained and
relatively high load factors are imposed. Because of the
high load factors imposed, these turns should be
performed at an airspeed that does not exceed the
airplane's design maneuvering speed (VA). The
principles of an ordinary steep turn apply, but as a
practice maneuver the steep turns should be continued
until 360° or 720° of turn have been completed.


Yes, you are of course correct. She did say steep turns were 45-60 degrees.
I should have said 'steeper' turns.


What happened to 'slow flight', 'ground reference maneuvers',
and 'traffic pattern' instruction and practice?

We're talking about a Skyfox Gazelle here, so all flight is 'slow flight'
:-) This is essentially an ultra light, or what you in the US would call
your 'Sport Class' aircraft. I won't have a PPL at the end of this, but a
Recreational Pilots Certificate. I will be able to transfer to a PPL at the
end with I think 5 hours and a checkride, plus an exam I think.

Sounds as if your instructor is doing the old 'walking before
crawling' routine.


The syllabus I am following is from a set of manuals for ultra light pilots.
The order of lessons straight from the text is:

1. Effects of Control
2. Straight and level flight
3. medium turns
4. climbing
5. descending
6. climbing turns
7. descending turns
8. Basic stall recovery
9. Circuits and landings
10. Simulated engine failure in the circuit
11. Simulated engine failure after take off
12. crosswind circuits and landings
13. Advanced stall recovery
14. sideslip approaches
15. forced landings
16. Precautionary search
17. Level steep turns
18. Steep descending turns
19. short field technique.

So, I am progressing through this in the correct documented order (for an
ultra light pilots syllabus). If one is to get through this in the minimum
20 hours, one must surely progress through it at a rate not all that
dissimilar to the rate at which I am. (I would have thought!) Sure, if I
need longer on a particular subject, then I'll spend more time on it.
Crash Lander

Jon Kraus writes:

As usual you know not of what you speak. Flight training needs to be
taught in a somewhat stringent order. The syllabus is created in a
specific way in order for the student to grasp the concepts and progress
through the training with a minimum of cash being sucked out of the
students wallet.

Some schools may not wish to minimize the amount of revenue they
receive from each student.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...

What happened to 'slow flight', 'ground reference maneuvers',
and 'traffic pattern' instruction and practice?


A syllabus is all well and good, but I always allow my students to fly
whatever portion of a flight they are capable of, and to learn the maximum from
each flight. Last time I checked, every flight unavoidably includes at least
one takeoff, one landing, and associated pattern work; so introduction to TO,
landing & pattern starts with the first lesson.

I have done a lot of commercial glider rides, which always included stick
time if the passenger was willing. I have even had (once or twice) a totally
inexperienced passenger do a successful pattern all the way to touchdown.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote
A syllabus is all well and good, but I always allow my students
to fly
whatever portion of a flight they are capable of, and to learn the
maximum from each flight. Last time I checked, every flight
unavoidably includes at least one takeoff, one landing, and associated
pattern work; so introduction to TO, landing & pattern starts with the
first lesson.

Yep! There are teachers and then there are demonstrators. I know
which one that I am....how about you?

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor ASEL-I
Ground Instructor Advanced/Instrument
ATP B-707 B-727 L-188
USN S-2F P-2V P-3B

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...
Hi Crash;
Sounds like you're having a ball.
Dudley

I am DH, thanks.
BTW, had a good look at your IFPF site the other day. Very impressive
stuff mate! Also had a read about the Alexis Park Inn. Great story Jay!
Makes me want to go out and find a failing motel and follow your
footsteps! :-)
Crash Lander

An earlier life I think :-))

DH

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...
Hi Crash;
Sounds like you're having a ball.
Dudley

I am DH, thanks.
BTW, had a good look at your IFPF site the other day. Very impressive stuff
mate! Also had a read about the Alexis Park Inn. Great story Jay! Makes me
want to go out and find a failing motel and follow your footsteps! :-)
Crash Lander

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
Vaughn Simon wrote

Yep! There are teachers and then there are demonstrators. I know
which one that I am....how about you?

My style is to stay as "hands off" the controls as possible, (Don't take me
too literally, some things obviously must be demonstrated)

In some ways, we derive our teaching style from our own CFIs. Sometimes the
example is negative and we resolve to NOT be like our own CFIs. When I soloed,
I had never once been given the opportunity to fly an entire flight without my
CFI grabbing the controls and giving me some "advice". Thusly, when I finally
soloed, there was no way that he or I could know for 100% sure that I was
capable of putting all of the pieces together into a safe flight. (As it turned
out, I could)

For this reason, as a CFI I have never soloed a student until I have taken
at least one flight (sometimes several) with that student with my mouth zipped
shut and my hands totally off the controls. (I make notes for a good debriefing
on the ground) I never announce this in advance, and always feel free to change
my mind in mid-lesson; but if it works out I explain on the ground that they
just passed a "virtual solo".

Vaughn