US Republican corporations to handle election counts

IBM wrote:
T wrote in
:

(Snip)

In short any problems in Florida were the result of incompetent
Democraps creating a flawed ballot and then running the vote
on poorly maintained equipment. They got what they deserved.

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.

The problems were in democrat-run districts . . .

Steve Swartz

(and was anyone ever prosecuted for fraud- like the guy who had a voting
machine in his trunk and several thousand ballots- or the owner of the van
with the stacks of bundled ballots and the awl used to mass-vote? Both
cases were democrat operatives in disputed counties. Oh by the way, you
*do* know how "hanging chads" are created, don't you? Hint: it isn't in a
voting booth with a single ballot . . . )


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
IBM wrote:
T wrote in
:

(Snip)

In short any problems in Florida were the result of incompetent
Democraps creating a flawed ballot and then running the vote
on poorly maintained equipment. They got what they deserved.

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of
State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.

"Leslie Swartz" wrote in message
...
The problems were in democrat-run districts . . .

Steve Swartz

(and was anyone ever prosecuted for fraud- like the guy who had a voting
machine in his trunk and several thousand ballots- or the owner of the van
with the stacks of bundled ballots and the awl used to mass-vote? Both
cases were democrat operatives in disputed counties. Oh by the way, you
*do* know how "hanging chads" are created, don't you? Hint: it isn't in
a
voting booth with a single ballot . . . )


Were any found in MILITARY AIRCRAFT?

Tex

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.



I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question, that
the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were
largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge.




Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

"IBM" wrote in message
...
And the really shweet thing is that Ahnold got more votes than
Davis did in the preceding election. How ya like them apples.

Kind of proves democracy is largely wasted on the masses.

Si

"Ron" wrote in message
...

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.



I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question,
that
the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were
largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge.

The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process
within his state, and his appointed secretary of state monitored that function
for him. It didn't matter who the Indians were.....they were the Chiefs and
they had the authority and power to dictate to those Democratic Indians how
things needed to be done. They get the "attaboys" when things work right, and
the brickbats when they don't.

Blaming it on Democratic county officials does not wash, at least for me. The
supervisors could have seen to it that things worked better, and they didn't.
They have to take the rap.

George Z.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.

I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question,
that
the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were
largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge.

The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process
within his state, and his appointed secretary of state monitored that function
for him. It didn't matter who the Indians were.....they were the Chiefs and
they had the authority and power to dictate to those Democratic Indians how
things needed to be done. They get the "attaboys" when things work right, and
the brickbats when they don't.

Blaming it on Democratic county officials does not wash, at least for me. The
supervisors could have seen to it that things worked better, and they didn't.
They have to take the rap.

George Z.


Well, when it comes to revising into a truth that suits, there seems
to be a bit on George Z's side of the issue as well. Secretaries of
State are elected offices, not appointed. Elections are administered
at county level by county clerks (elected) who certify voter lists,
establish polling places, design and certify ballots, purchase and
maintain voting equipment, count ballots and certify the results to
the state. So, you might be able to assign a bit of blame to Democrat
county officials.

Then, let's also be "fair and balanced" to note that the recount
demand focussed on three counties, not all of the counties of the
state. Why do you suppose that was? Did you note that those counties
were Democrat controlled?

Did you notice the discounting of absentee ballots? Who would be
disenfranchised by that? Why do you suppose that was?

But, most importantly (and to be fair, an issue you didn't raise),
there is the question of who won the popular election. It doesn't
matter!!! Constitutionally we elect the president through the
electoral college. That's established by the Constitution. Selection
of electors is controlled by the states. Voting procedure by the
electors is established by the states. Unit rule voting is mandated by
the laws in 38 states and done in the remaining twelve by tradition.

All of this was known by all of the players prior to the election.
After you've played the game, if you are unhappy with how the score
was kept, it is too late to change the rules. You've got to amend the
Constitution BEFORE the election if you want the prez elected by the
popular vote.

And, as I recall, it wasn't the Governor of FL or the Secretary of
State that ruled in finality. It was the US Supreme Court, with its
Constitutionally provided authority over lesser courts in our federal
system that finally closed the issue. If that was unsatisfactory, then
that rule needs to be changed BEFORE subsequent games as well.

So, start concentrating on those Constitutional amendments. Start
choosing your best candidate from the large cast of contenders. But,
most importantly get over the last one. You can't make ground beating
a poorly embalmed dead horse.

Bull roar.

PLONK

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:51:36 -0500, T wrote:

This has the first few paragraphs from two articles and links to
where the full articles can be found.

Published on Monday, October 13, 2003 by the lndependent/UK
All the President's Votes?
A Quiet Revolution is Taking Place in US Politics. By the Time It's
Over, the Integrity of Elections Will be in the Unchallenged,
Unscrutinized Control of a Few Large - and Pro-Republican -
Corporations. Andrew Gumbel wonders if democracy in America can
survive

by Andrew Gumbel

Something very odd happened in the mid-term elections in Georgia last
November. On the eve of the vote, opinion polls showed Roy Barnes, the
incumbent Democratic governor, leading by between nine and 11 points.
In a somewhat closer, keenly watched Senate race, polls indicated that
Max Cleland, the popular Democrat up for re-election, was ahead by two
to five points against his Republican challenger, Saxby Chambliss.


Those figures were more or less what political experts would have
expected in state with a long tradition of electing Democrats to
statewide office. But then the results came in, and all of Georgia
appeared to have been turned upside down. Barnes lost the governorship
to the Republican, Sonny Perdue, 46 per cent to 51 per cent, a swing
of as much as 16 percentage points from the last opinion polls.
Cleland lost to Chambliss 46 per cent to 53, a last-minute swing of 9
to 12 points.

"Corporate America is very close to running this country. The only
thing that is stopping them from taking total control are the pesky
voters. That's why there's such a drive to control the vote. What
we're seeing is the corporatization of the last shred of democracy."
Roxanne Jekot computer programmer

the whole article is he
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1013-01.htm

========================

Fears of more US electoral chaos after flaws are discovered in ballot
computers
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
14 October 2003

Next year's US presidential election may be compromised by newvoting
machines that computer scientists believe are unreliable, poorly
programmed and prone to tampering.

An investigation published in today's Independent reveals tens of
thousands of touch screen voting machines may be less reliable than
the old punchcards, which famously stalled the presidential election
in Florida in 2000, leaving the whole election open to international
ridicule.

The machines are said to offer no independent verification of
individual voting choices, making recounts impossible, and the
software is shielded from public scrutiny by trade secrecy agreements.

the whole article is he
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=453116

---------------


Vote to impeach Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need
regime change here now. http://www.votetoimpeach.org/

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of
State
Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run
the state were Republicans.

Silly me!

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.

I think what he meant George was that the individual counties in question,
that
the ones in charge of the voting process were democrats, since those were
largely urban counties in which Democrats were elected and in charge.

The last time I looked, the governor was in charge of the election process
within his state, and his appointed secretary of state monitored that
function
for him. It didn't matter who the Indians were.....they were the Chiefs and
they had the authority and power to dictate to those Democratic Indians how
things needed to be done. They get the "attaboys" when things work right,
and
the brickbats when they don't.

Blaming it on Democratic county officials does not wash, at least for me.
The
supervisors could have seen to it that things worked better, and they didn't.
They have to take the rap.

George Z.


Well, when it comes to revising into a truth that suits, there seems
to be a bit on George Z's side of the issue as well. Secretaries of
State are elected offices, not appointed. Elections are administered
at county level by county clerks (elected) who certify voter lists,
establish polling places, design and certify ballots, purchase and
maintain voting equipment, count ballots and certify the results to
the state. So, you might be able to assign a bit of blame to Democrat
county officials.

Then, let's also be "fair and balanced" to note that the recount
demand focussed on three counties, not all of the counties of the
state. Why do you suppose that was? Did you note that those counties
were Democrat controlled?

Did you notice the discounting of absentee ballots? Who would be
disenfranchised by that? Why do you suppose that was?

But, most importantly (and to be fair, an issue you didn't raise),
there is the question of who won the popular election. It doesn't
matter!!! Constitutionally we elect the president through the
electoral college. That's established by the Constitution. Selection
of electors is controlled by the states. Voting procedure by the
electors is established by the states. Unit rule voting is mandated by
the laws in 38 states and done in the remaining twelve by tradition.

All of this was known by all of the players prior to the election.
After you've played the game, if you are unhappy with how the score
was kept, it is too late to change the rules. You've got to amend the
Constitution BEFORE the election if you want the prez elected by the
popular vote.

And, as I recall, it wasn't the Governor of FL or the Secretary of
State that ruled in finality. It was the US Supreme Court, with its
Constitutionally provided authority over lesser courts in our federal
system that finally closed the issue. If that was unsatisfactory, then
that rule needs to be changed BEFORE subsequent games as well.

So, start concentrating on those Constitutional amendments. Start
choosing your best candidate from the large cast of contenders. But,
most importantly get over the last one. You can't make ground beating
a poorly embalmed dead horse.

Well, I'm flattered that a published author spent so much time straightening me
out, and so eloquently, too.
I'll concede all of the nit picky things you pointed out, primarily because I
have no interest in revisiting the 2001 presidential election in Florida. And,
when all is said and done, I'll stick with my previous position vis-a-vis the
responsibilities of the elected Governor and his elected/appointed (whichever)
Secretary of State. AFAIAC, it's all about attaboys and brickbats.

George Z.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:35:58 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...

And all this while I thought that Gov. "Jeb" Bush, and his Secretary of
State Katheryn Harris and all of the rest of the people he appointed to help him
run the state were Republicans.

If the truth doesn't suit you, just revise it into something that will.

George Z.

Well, when it comes to revising into a truth that suits, there seems
to be a bit on George Z's side of the issue as well. Secretaries of
State are elected offices, not appointed. Elections are administered
at county level by county clerks (elected) who certify voter lists,
establish polling places, design and certify ballots, purchase and
maintain voting equipment, count ballots and certify the results to
the state. So, you might be able to assign a bit of blame to Democrat
county officials.

But, most importantly (and to be fair, an issue you didn't raise),
there is the question of who won the popular election. It doesn't
matter!!! Constitutionally we elect the president through the
electoral college. That's established by the Constitution. Selection
of electors is controlled by the states. Voting procedure by the
electors is established by the states. Unit rule voting is mandated by
the laws in 38 states and done in the remaining twelve by tradition.

All of this was known by all of the players prior to the election.
After you've played the game, if you are unhappy with how the score
was kept, it is too late to change the rules. You've got to amend the
Constitution BEFORE the election if you want the prez elected by the
popular vote.

And, as I recall, it wasn't the Governor of FL or the Secretary of
State that ruled in finality. It was the US Supreme Court, with its
Constitutionally provided authority over lesser courts in our federal
system that finally closed the issue. If that was unsatisfactory, then
that rule needs to be changed BEFORE subsequent games as well.

So, start concentrating on those Constitutional amendments. Start
choosing your best candidate from the large cast of contenders. But,
most importantly get over the last one. You can't make ground beating
a poorly embalmed dead horse.

Well, I'm flattered that a published author spent so much time straightening me
out, and so eloquently, too.

Eloquence never hurts, nor does courtesy and politeness in debate.
Thank you for noticing. But, it isn't the published author part that
leads me to address the question. It's the BS and MPS in Political
Science and the MSIR in International Relations and the seven years
teaching poli sci at the local community college.

I'll concede all of the nit picky things you pointed out, primarily because I
have no interest in revisiting the 2001 presidential election in Florida. And,
when all is said and done, I'll stick with my previous position vis-a-vis the
responsibilities of the elected Governor and his elected/appointed (whichever)
Secretary of State. AFAIAC, it's all about attaboys and brickbats.

Well, if you've no interest in revisiting, you could have fooled me. I
thought that's exactly what the initial post was about. But, I'll take
you at your word.

Why then, when faced with some detail (dare I call them facts?) do you
insist on "stick with my previous position..." and "elected/appointed
(whichever)" Sec'y of State? I agree that the coincidence of Brother
Bush being the Governor of a state in question is remarkable, but how
could that have been manipulated, arranged, coordinated, influenced or
whatever beforehand? And, if the Secretary of State (whose only
function in the matter was to "certify" the results supplied by the
clerks of the counties or if challenged to refer it to the courts,
which she did) isn't appointed but is elected, doesn't that mean your
basic position that somehow Jeb and Kathryn skewered the election for
Gore is flawed?

If we're dealing attaboys there are few to go around. The whole issue
was booted early on when Dan Rather miss-called the election and Tom
Brokaw shortly confirmed the mis-call. Then it was further screwed up
when the media continued to overlook the opportunity to clear up facts
in question with a bit of high school civics.

If it's brickbats, then let's award them to the media first and then
to the poor voters of those three counties who had such difficulty
deciphering complex instruction like "punch hole next to arrow by your
candidate's name" and were physically unable to get that nasty old
chad to separate from where they were punching.

Democracy is poorly served by people of such manifest ignorance,
regardless of the party with which they affiliate.





George Z.