Tow Costs

Just about as close to break even as you can get.
Depending on hours flown annually on the Blanik, it sounds like the dues
pays the insurance and reserve funds.
BT

wrote in message
oups.com...
Our club operation -

$400 initiation

$40/month dues

$12/hr Blanik L13

$6/1000' for the Pawnee tow

We are about a break even operation.

Mike
ASW 15

BTIZ wrote:

4.40 per minute = $264 per hour

Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We
charter the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with
that. (I think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure.
Of course, we're calculating the full cost of operation.)

on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our
field with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets
expensive.

no wonder you're making money.

Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above:
Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three
LS4s, two double seaters... with no hourly fees.)

Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

But at approximately four times the price.

Stefan

In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.
Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
some local soaring.
A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
day.
Club dues are US$100 a month, no rent/hourly charges.
So, consider yourself blessed with your low rates.
John.

dumass wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.
Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
some local soaring.
A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
day.

Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a
self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid
$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped
glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there?

--
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.

What airport do you fly gliders out of in the SF Bay Area?

unicate wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.


What airport do you fly gliders out of in the SF Bay Area?

Hollister...

Eric-

Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis....

1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance
for the self-launcher?

2.) The price difference between comparable pure and
motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so
much money up front for a ship.

3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the
self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado
summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows



At 23:00 05 April 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
dumass wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about
US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.
Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can
do with lower tows for
some local soaring.
A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125
(6500 ft, 16nm out). An
aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125,
making it a $250
day if the circumstances are not at best or you return
too late in the
day.

Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider,
or even a
self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a
year would avoid
$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch
a sustainer-equipped
glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there
any there?

--
Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

dumass wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.
Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
some local soaring.
A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
day.

And that may not include the soon-to-be-announced increases. :-(

Jeremy

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a
self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid
$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped
glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there?

There are a 4-6 motorgliders based at the field depending on the
season--unless I've forgotten a few.

Jeremy

Stewart Kissel wrote:
Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider,
or even a
self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a
year would avoid
$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch
a sustainer-equipped
glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there
any there?

Eric-

Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis....

1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance
for the self-launcher?

It wasn't a cost analysis, just pointing out that the tow cost left a
lot of room to afford a motorglider. Assuming you fly the same quality
of glider you do now, but with a motor, your additional insurance cost
would likely be less than $800. That's a guess based on the $1600/year I
pay for liability and hull insurance on my ASH 26E. The sustainer would
be even cheaper to insure, of course, though you'd be paying $20 or so
for 1000' tows, which would come to $800 for the year.

2.) The price difference between comparable pure and
motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so
much money up front for a ship.

True, but it does vary a lot: for the PIK 20 E, it's about $20,000; for
the DG400 vs DG200, maybe $30,000; and the newer ASH 26 E, DG 800, etc,
maybe $40,000? The least cost would be a sustainer, as the motor
installations are much less expensive. With such expensive tows, I
suspect a sustainer would be no more expensive, overall, than a similar
unpowered glider, though I haven't played with the numbers recently.
Even if it wasn't cheaper, it's self-retrieve capability might allow
soaring experiences that an active XC pilot would gladly pay for.

3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the
self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado
summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows

The DG 400 does fine in Colorado, and they aren't near that price yet.
The Apis M is definitely less the $100K, has the same power/weight
ratio, and should also launch well. Maybe the Silent would be suitable,
but I didn't check into it.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA