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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be
finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 |
#2
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
"Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote in message news:87d5dd402195d@uwe... I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? |
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:56:16 GMT, "Cyberfly via AviationKB.com"
u45015@uwe wrote: I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do it. Since you'd be PIC "under IFR" and don't have the rating you can't meet the requirements in 91.169(a)(1) (referencing 91.153(a)(3) ("name of pilot in command" or 61.57(2)(c). It doesn't make a distinction between IMC or VMC while flying under IFR. 61.57(2)(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has: (all the stuff required for instrument currency) |
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
Can you quote me the FAR that states this?? thanks ron
Howard wrote: I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] Thanks ron.. This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#5
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On 07/28/08 11:56, Cyberfly via AviationKB.com wrote:
I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. Ron, Have a look at FAR 61.3 (e): (e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds: (1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown; (2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the aircraft being flown; (3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an airplane instrument rating; or (4) For an airship, a commercial pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating and airship class rating. Note that it says "under IFR *or* in IMC". There are also regs concerning your currency of flight experience. I'll let you look those up as a homework assignment :-) One thing you *can* do, however, is practice instrument approaches. I suspect this is what the "old guys" were talking about. Although not required, you should consider only doing this when you have a safety pilot, as it is not easy to twiddle with all the dials while still keeping your eyes outside the cockpit looking for other traffic. How are things going with your rating otherwise? Best Regards, -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#6
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On 07/28/08 12:15, Howard wrote:
"Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote in message news:87d5dd402195d@uwe... I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Thanks ron.. -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/ifr/200807/1 This one I think is pretty straightforward. You may not accept or fly under an IFR clearance unless the plane and PIC are IFR current. Time of day, visibility, class of airspace do not play a part in this determination. You can file (for the practice of filing) but you cannot accept the clearance as PIC unless you are IFR current. Which raises the question "is the safety pilot PIC" if the pilot operating the controls with a vision restricting device is has not met the 6/6 requirement? You are VFR but operating under an IFR clearance for the purposes of the practice approaches. Who has legally accepted the approaches? You do not have to be under an IFR clearance to practice approaches. In fact, some controllers will say "Practice Approach Approved" rather than the normal "Cleared for the approach" to make this point clear. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#7
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On 07/28/08 12:23, Peter Clark wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:56:16 GMT, "Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote: I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do it. Since you'd be PIC "under IFR" and don't have the rating you can't meet the requirements in 91.169(a)(1) (referencing 91.153(a)(3) ("name of pilot in command" or 61.57(2)(c). It doesn't make a distinction between IMC or VMC while flying under IFR. 61.57(2)(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has: (all the stuff required for instrument currency) You missed the big one: 61.3(e). Have a look at my other response. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#8
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:48:03 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote: On 07/28/08 12:23, Peter Clark wrote: On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:56:16 GMT, "Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote: I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do it. Since you'd be PIC "under IFR" and don't have the rating you can't meet the requirements in 91.169(a)(1) (referencing 91.153(a)(3) ("name of pilot in command" or 61.57(2)(c). It doesn't make a distinction between IMC or VMC while flying under IFR. 61.57(2)(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has: (all the stuff required for instrument currency) You missed the big one: 61.3(e). Have a look at my other response. Yea, dua, I was looking at it from the flight plan PIC requirement back and stopped at recency.... Thanks. |
#9
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
Cyberfly via AviationKB.com wrote:
I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. It is very "ILLEGAL" to file IFR flight plan and fly in IMC without either your IFR ticket or an IFR rated instructor. The practice would be great of getting into the system, approaches, vectors, etc.,,but my fear is that if I try this,,I could wind up in deep dodo with my local FSDO. I have searched the FARs and cant find any reference to this scenario and so I cant verify if I could actually do this or not legally. This would be quite easy to do at night on a clear night. I do most of my IFR training at night because of my work schedule and love the night flights, less traffic, no turbulence, etc... Your thoughts? You must have an instrument rating or an ATP to operate an airplane under Instrument Flight Rules regardless of local weather conditions. § 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations. (e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds: (1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown; (2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the aircraft being flown; (3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an airplane instrument rating; or (4) For an airship, a commercial pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating and airship class rating. |
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Filing IFR flight Plan in VMC
On Jul 28, 11:56*am, "Cyberfly via AviationKB.com" u45015@uwe wrote:
I have a question for the group. Im working on my IFR ticket, and will be finished in about another 2-3 months, depending on how much I fly (Im renting. so at $165/hr with instructor,, the $$$$ flow is very high right now) . I was told by one of the "old guys" at the airport that if I wanted to file an IFR flight plan in VMC and remain totally VFR, that I could do so by myself without an instructor with me (and without my IFR ticket). The premise is that it is not illegal to file an IFR plan and fly it VMC while keeping VFR the entire time. This is what you get from free "old guy" advice. He is totally wrong. It is illegal for you to accept an IFR clearance without being IFR rated and current. -Robert, CFII |
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