Seminole crash - 3 CFIs

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Maule Driver" wrote in message
r.com...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:5KDJb.738451$Fm2.658693@attbi_s04...
Weird. Bob's post appeared normally on my PC.

Same here. No crap.

That's because you are all using a newsreader that interprets HTML, which
is
what Bob's original post was written in.

He shouldn't have used HTML (nor should anyone be posting to a newsgroup
like this one using HTML), and Robert wound up suffering because he did.
Most people don't, just because their newsreader is hiding poor posting
practices from them.

(Actually, the truth is that if you're paying attention, even in Outlook
Express or other HTML-aware newsreaders, the HTML posts look different.
The
poor posting practice isn't so much hidden, as it is made less obvious to
those not aware of the issue).

As for the topic at hand, I don't know much about the Seminole, but
without
knowing the weights of the four people in the plane, I don't see how Bob
can
say that it's "not a real four passenger airplane". I'm not a small
person
(200 pound-ish), and I've flown a 172 with all four seats occupied with
adults, and legally so at that.

Seems to me it's a little premature to be making conclusions about the
cause
of the accident. Could easily be that the aircraft load had *nothing* to
do
with the crash.

Pete


Ah but the issue in twins is how well it flies on one engine; and many fly
very poorly while still legal.
A Seminole with two onboard flies nicely on one engine below about 6,000
feet.
Gross weight is another matter; the engines are only 180 hp each.
A PA44-180 was my first twin. I flew it as far as Vermont from Austin,
Texas.
I flew it into Angel Fire, N.M. twice. (Well below gross weight)
Been into grass strips and Sewanee TN. Mustang beach and Love field.
This is not speculation on the cause of the crash, but commentary on the
single-engine performance of the Seminole.
H.

H. Adam Stevens
Comm Multi Inst
ex N2196B PA44-180
ex N739CD C172N
ex N502TB BE58P

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
| "Maule Driver" wrote in message
| r.com...
|
| "Jay Honeck" wrote in message
| news:5KDJb.738451$Fm2.658693@attbi_s04...
| Weird. Bob's post appeared normally on my PC.
|
| Same here. No crap.
|
| That's because you are all using a newsreader that interprets HTML, which
is
| what Bob's original post was written in.
|
| He shouldn't have used HTML (nor should anyone be posting to a newsgroup
| like this one using HTML

OTOH, what kind of benighted troglodyte still uses a newsreader that cannot
properly interpret HTML?

I have flown a Seminole over the Cascades with three adult passengers, and
it was a dog. Tops were at 12000 and I was in and out, unable to climb much
higher. I am not proud of my decision to go that day.

Insofar as the HTML question is concerned, I'm not computer savvy enough to
know what I am doing wrong. Why has this question just popped up, after the
many, many times I have posted without changing any settings??

Bob Gardner

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Maule Driver" wrote in message
r.com...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:5KDJb.738451$Fm2.658693@attbi_s04...
Weird. Bob's post appeared normally on my PC.

Same here. No crap.

That's because you are all using a newsreader that interprets HTML, which
is
what Bob's original post was written in.

He shouldn't have used HTML (nor should anyone be posting to a newsgroup
like this one using HTML), and Robert wound up suffering because he did.
Most people don't, just because their newsreader is hiding poor posting
practices from them.

(Actually, the truth is that if you're paying attention, even in Outlook
Express or other HTML-aware newsreaders, the HTML posts look different.
The
poor posting practice isn't so much hidden, as it is made less obvious to
those not aware of the issue).

As for the topic at hand, I don't know much about the Seminole, but
without
knowing the weights of the four people in the plane, I don't see how Bob
can
say that it's "not a real four passenger airplane". I'm not a small
person
(200 pound-ish), and I've flown a 172 with all four seats occupied with
adults, and legally so at that.

Seems to me it's a little premature to be making conclusions about the
cause
of the accident. Could easily be that the aircraft load had *nothing* to
do
with the crash.

Pete

Here is the preliminary NTSB report....

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/B_0102_N.txt

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:RJCJb.116684$VB2.301103@attbi_s51...
This morning's paper reports that a Seminole crashed near Cave Junction, Oregon, killing three. Of the four persons on board, three were flight instructors. Undefined power problems were reported by the pilot. Conditions were IMC.

The Seminole is not a real four passenger airplane any more than a Cessna 172 is. It just doesn't have the oomph needed to get on top of the weather, especially over mountains.

Bob Gardner

Not the same accident...

Bob Gardner

"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message news:PHFJb.724589$HS4.5385034@attbi_s01...
Here is the preliminary NTSB report....

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/B_0102_N.txt

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:RJCJb.116684$VB2.301103@attbi_s51...
This morning's paper reports that a Seminole crashed near Cave Junction, Oregon, killing three. Of the four persons on board, three were flight instructors. Undefined power problems were reported by the pilot. Conditions were IMC.

The Seminole is not a real four passenger airplane any more than a Cessna 172 is. It just doesn't have the oomph needed to get on top of the weather, especially over mountains.

Bob Gardner

So one was killed and three were injured, instead of the three killed
reported in the paper. Maybe two of them died after the FAA report was last
updated.

Induction icing does not sound like an "unspecified power problem."

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:fTFJb.213118$8y1.747812@attbi_s52...
Not the same accident...

************************************************** **************************
****
** Report created 1/2/2004 Record 2
**
************************************************** **************************
****

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole,
Turbo Seminole
Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

LOCATION
City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US

DESCRIPTION
PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30 NE OF
CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION ICING.
NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
UNABLE
TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991 RMK
AO2
RAE11


OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation

Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing:
Y
Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE

FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004

Did you scroll to the bottom? If it's not, it's an incredible coincidence... ; - )

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole, Turbo Seminole
Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

LOCATION
City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US

DESCRIPTION
PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30 NE OF
CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION ICING.
NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT UNABLE
TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991 RMK AO2
RAE11


OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation

Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: Y
Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE

FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004





"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:fTFJb.213118$8y1.747812@attbi_s52...
Not the same accident...

Bob Gardner

"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message news:PHFJb.724589$HS4.5385034@attbi_s01...
Here is the preliminary NTSB report....

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/B_0102_N.txt

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:RJCJb.116684$VB2.301103@attbi_s51...
This morning's paper reports that a Seminole crashed near Cave Junction, Oregon, killing three. Of the four persons on board, three were flight instructors. Undefined power problems were reported by the pilot. Conditions were IMC.

The Seminole is not a real four passenger airplane any more than a Cessna 172 is. It just doesn't have the oomph needed to get on top of the weather, especially over mountains.

Bob Gardner

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:47:07 GMT, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

Not the same accident...

Scroll down.

Don

It looks like Bob is using Outlook Express from the headers. One can
send in text format by specifying this under "Options - Send"
sub-menu.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 13:58:20 -0500, Saryon
wrote:

On mine there's a 1KB attachment, with the attachment (in HTML) being
auto-decoded.

Are you using Agent?

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:23:21 GMT, "Maule Driver"
wrote:

Same here. No crap.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:5KDJb.738451$Fm2.658693@attbi_s04...
Are you sure that you don't have your newsgroup reader set to display,
'source' ???

Nope! This is the only post.

Weird. Bob's post appeared normally on my PC.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"