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Letter to the FAA



 
 
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  #81  
Old June 7th 17, 10:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone[_4_]
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Posts: 398
Default Letter to the FAA

At 16:39 07 June 2017, Scott Williams wrote:

It is interesting to note that no one denies that the Schweizer hook has
an inherent design fault that can lead to failure to release.
It is clear that most people agree that the TOST release is safer and
does not suffer from the same fault.
It is obvious that a release control mounted near the throttle in a tow
plane provides more opportunity to release quickly in the event of an
upset.
It is well proven that if release is required in these circumstances it is

imperative that it happens quickly.
All these things have been "known" for some time, and for whatever
reason, some have ignored the common sense solution of fitting TOST
releases and mounting the release knob near the throttle.
Given that the people responsible for safety within the US soaring
community appear to have, and continue to, ignore the obvious danger
what other action could Walt possibly take?
As an outside observer from a part of the world where the fitting of the
release knob close to the throttle is mandated, as the result of one fatal

accident, (one that led to the death of a very good friend) I would have
to conclude that Walt really does have no alternative. No one else
appears to have the courage to take any action.
US soaring has had more than enough time to put it's house in order,
when self regulation fails there is only one other alternative.
That accident that I describe by the way, occurred 39 years ago, how
long does it take you to learn?


  #82  
Old June 7th 17, 11:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone[_4_]
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Posts: 398
Default Letter to the FAA

After considering my last post a thought came to me. There is no need
for Walt to send a letter to the FAA, unless they are blind deaf and
stupid, they already know. I find it hard to believe that they would not
be aware of what has been said in this thread.
Given that the USA has the reputation of being the home of the most
litigious people on the planet I find it hard to believe that knowing
there is a problem, and failing to act might not be the wisest course of
action. I am sure that the FAA are a far more lucrative target to sue, in
the event of an accident, than the SAA or an individual club or glider
operation.
Surely Pandora's Box is already open and the clock is ticking.

  #83  
Old June 8th 17, 12:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brian[_1_]
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Posts: 399
Default Letter to the FAA

The problem with a letter the FAA as already noted is that while you have an outcome of the letter in mind the outcome may be significantly different than you expect. But writing a letter is quick, cheap, and easy.
Bad Regulations are often the result of Good intentions.
Better plan, ….
Start Identifying operations that should upgrade their equipment to safer equipment. i.e. Tost Hooks, moving Releasing handles. Insure there actually are options to upgrade i.e. 337’s available or better yet STC’s for doing so for the aircraft they are using.
IF 337’s or STC’s are not available assist in developing them.
Award a Safety Rating/award to operations that have made these improvements..
Contact manufacturers such as American Champion that still sell Schweitzer releases and encourage them to offer Tost Releases and improve the location of these factory release handles.
Contact Cessna and encourage them to offer Tost Releases as a factory option with appropriate release handles.
Start a Fund to help subsidize operations upgrades or to develop STC’s.
Contact the SSA and Volunteer to become a SSF volunteer to educate and develop all the above.
Of course, this is a lot more work than just writing a letter that will likely have limited positive effect and had the potential for negative consequences. But then is saving one life only worth just a letter to the FAA, or is it worth you paying to upgrade one or more towplanes for an operation, or spending a few days a year evaluating and educating soaring operations, raising funds, and developing the actual paperwork to do the upgrades?
Brian
CFIIG
  #84  
Old June 8th 17, 12:38 AM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

At least discuss your proposal with Steve. There may be history with the FAA on this issue.

Frank Whiteley[/quote]

Frank, the following Email was sent to the email address you provided for Steve Northcraft.

Mr Northcraft,

In case you haven't heard about my letter to the FAA, to save the both of us time I would ask that you go to AviationBanter or RecAviation Soaring and read my comments under "Letter to the FAA" and perhaps "Tow Plane Upsets" which will give you some insight into my intentions.

To make a long story short I experienced two very sudden kiting incidents within one weeks time. One at 2000 feet and one starting at about 350 feet. In both cases I made an attempt to release the glider and in both cases I found the release virtually frozen. In the incident that happened at 350 feet, had the rope not broken or had it broken a second or so later you would have been reading about my death. I was flying a Piper Pawnee with a Schweizer hook and a release handle located down on and parallel to the floor.

The post "Tow Plane Upsets" was meant to explain what happened to me and to hear from other tow pilots of their experiences. I had heard about the difficulty releasing a glider with the Schweizer hook as have most tow pilots, to have experienced it drives home the reality of the situation. I was made aware of at least two deaths in the USA as a result of a failure of the Schweizer release. I understand one of these deaths resulted in the STC for the Inverted Schweizer hook. These mechanisms are meant to allow the tow pilot to release the glider when it becomes critically necessary. I can tell you that at that moment it didn't work for me.

I found it telling that many other tow pilots say they will NOT tow with anything but a Tost hook. I learned that a Canadian glider pilot/tow pilot well known to me noted that 30 years ago their club went to the Tost hook and a release handle up near the throttle as a result of a low kiting accident. In addition, the British Gliding Association has mandated the release be up near the throttle and I am told that the Schweizer hook is virtually non existent in their system. The BGA obvioiusly stepped forward and corrected the situation. Where is the SSA/SFF in this regard?

What I find astounding is that this has been known for quite some time. In both FAA Advisory Circular, Date 3/3/08, AC no 43.13-2B, page 76 and in Soaring Safety Foundation, Tow Pilot Training, page 9 (in red no less) it is clearly stated that when the glider under tow operates above a certain angle to the tow plane, the ring may slide upwards on the hook causing excessive load on the hook and difficulty in releasing the tow rope ring.

In addition to the failure of the Schweizer hook to open, I question the sanity of putting a release handle down on and "parallel" to the floor of the Pawnee requiring an olympic level of calesthenics to reach and actuate. While this may have been approved by the FAA, this poor design was easily a factor in my inability to release the glider in both cases. On page 78 of the above mentioned FAA Advisory Circular there is a drawing, Figure 8-3. Typical Tow Hitch Release Handle showing a handle extending more vertically, perhaps 30 degrees from fully vertical. I have seen such a handle installation on other Pawnees with a handle long enough so as to be immediately available to the pilot. It would make sense that this should be the standard for handle design and installation.

I am a reasonable person. It is NOT my intention to do anything to inhibit the gliding, soaring community. It is my intention to save a life so I am communicating with you as per the request of Frank Whiteley. Is there a history with the FAA regarding this issue? I realize that if I approach the FAA that an over reaction might happen. I would be willing to put this ball in your court to see if a reasonable accomodation could be made.

Please Advise.

Respectfully


Walt Connelly
  #85  
Old June 8th 17, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Letter to the FAA

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 5:45:08 PM UTC-5, Don Johnstone wrote:
I am sure that the FAA are a far more lucrative target to sue, in
the event of an accident, than the SAA or an individual club or glider
operation.



OMG! That is hilarious - better even than the "Elmira Death Hook"!

Seriously - you really can't sue the FAA - it's the government and they WILL win. But a glider operation with some liquid assets?

Not to belittle Walt's plight - and as a fellow tow pilot who has also had an upset (although minor) in a Schweizer-equipped Pawnee - I am completely in the camp that all the Elmira Death Hooks (giggle) should be trashed and replaced with Tost release. 33.3 percent done on our towplanes, should be 66.6 by the end of the year, perhaps higher if we sell the last Schweizer equipped death trap (Anyone seriously interested in a 180 SuperCub?).

And while you are at it, trash the Gollywhompers that at bolted to the Elmira Death Hooks!

(Thanks Pez D Spencer!)

Kirk
66

  #86  
Old June 8th 17, 01:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 22
Default Letter to the FAA

You can sue the FAA and win. I know someone personally who did, rather his estate did.
  #87  
Old June 8th 17, 04:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 306
Default Letter to the FAA

Link for the Advisory Circular mentioned. Start at page 72.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...2043.13-2B.pdf



  #88  
Old June 8th 17, 01:58 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Agnew View Post
Link for the Advisory Circular mentioned. Start at page 72.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...2043.13-2B.pdf
Paul,

The drawing shown here appears to me to equate to the position of the handle in your tow plane. The ones I flew as I have stated require the pilot to make a dive for the floor, reaching and feeling for the handle. In the scant second one might have to successfully release a Schweizer hook, this is insane.

Even with this kind of set up it is still possible for a tow pilot to experience an upset from which recovery will not be possible....it's all about altitude. Reaction time is part of the equation and my position is that a handle not immediately accessable to the tow pilot is a recipe for disaster. Again, It is absurd to not give the tow pilot every fighting chance possible to have a positive outcome of a negative situation.

Walt
  #89  
Old June 8th 17, 02:06 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
You can sue the FAA and win. I know someone personally who did, rather his estate did.
There are many common misconceptions concerning lawsuits, one of which is that you can't sue a goverment agency. Not so. "The Federal Tort Claims Act waives the historic concept of “sovereign immunity” inherited from English law. It is possible to sue a federal employee who commits a tortuous act (negligence) within the scope of employment. An example would be a pilot complying with an ATC IFR clearance that causes him to fly into a mountain."

That being said if you want to go after a goverment agency you better have a strong, willing lawyer on your side and deep pockets. It's gonna cost you.

Walt
  #90  
Old June 8th 17, 02:52 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
Walt-

Before you go off with velocity but no direction, please supply the names and incidences of all these dead tow pilots. You see a problem because it happened to you. I agree that perhaps the Schweizer release is susceptible to failures when the towed glider is wildly out of position, and that there is likely a remedy through either inverting the release or hoping for better training.

Asking for a ban on these release mechanisms nationwide is likely to cause a large number of glider operations to halt operations since the Schweizer release is the ONLY mechanism accepted for a particular tow plane. Banning the Schweizer release is likely to shut down an active club or commercial operator.

The FAA will issue a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) prior to proposing an Airworthiness Directive that would ban the use of the Schweizer release. They will have to justify this by citing the "Unsafe conditions" that the AD is supposed to correct. You will have to supply the evidence that this is, in fact, a valid concern. Be prepared with solid evidence of fatalities, accidents incidents and testimony from affected parties. Your word and your singular experiences will not be enough.

Commercial operators and clubs faced with a significant monetary outlay to change release systems are encouraged to document the hundreds of thousands of successful aerotows using the Schweizer release with no incidents or accidents (or tow pilot fatalities).

You don't like Schweizer releases because of your particularly terrifying experience, and I can heartily agree and accept that. Glad you are still around. But, how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?

I have fallen off a bicycle several times. (Also motorcycles, hang gliders, horses etc., etc.) but I don't see the need to stop other participants when the vast majority of operations are carried out successfully..

Or, as one of my more colorfully necked acquaintances recently said,

"Y'all don't need ta' NUKE the gopher!"
Mark,

I am surprised that you would ask the question "But how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?" Are you serious? Well, to answer your question I have done just short of 7,000 tows prior to my "dismissal." Of those seven thousand, TWO resulted in a severe, sudden, unanticipated kiting which resulted in my need to attempt to release. Of those two situations, IN ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THEM I WAS UNABLE TO RELEASE FROM THE GLIDER.

I too have fallen from my bicycle, I was a USCF Senior Three many years and about 40 pounds ago. The bicycle fall was my fault, no one elses. I have dropped my motorcycle in the rain, my fault, no one elses. I too have fallen from a horse, my fault. The difference here is that a tow pilot is connected to a glider by a 200 foot rope and the glider pilot can negatively affect the situation with no fault of the tow pilot. If at that moment the system that is meant to save the life of the tow pilot doesn't work (and it is beyond well documented that it might not) the tow pilot could be dead. What part of this is it that some people don't seem to understand?

I am willing to allow the SFF/SAA and their representatives handle this but the fact is they have had decades to do so and have failed in this regard.


Walt
 




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