EA-18G vs ES-3

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 03:37:08 GMT, R. David Steele
wrote:

I have been out of the loop for a while. Hope that you folks
might bring me up to speed. What happened to the ES-3?

It was retired 9 years ago.

At the
time it looked like it could do the SIGINT/ELINT mission as it
had room for the gear plus a crew of four. Made it a good
replacement for the EA-6.

Not at all. EA-6B is not a SIGINT/ELINT platform, it is a combat
jammer. *Completely* different missions.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

"R. David Steele" wrote in message
...
How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?

It's planned to be a EA-6B replacement, that is, stand off jamming. What
amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that is in dire
need of replacement.

the P-3 ASW and the EP-3 SIGINT/ELINT platforms are still our
best lines of "defense", it is jut that they are not tactical
platforms that can go with the fleet. I wonder if the V-22,
should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
mission?

I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform for
SIGINT.

Brian wrote:
"R. David Steele" wrote in message
...
How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?

It's planned to be a EA-6B replacement, that is, stand off jamming.

Also more stand-in escort jamming and SEAD/strike, though not as much as
originally planned, it looks like.

What amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that
is in dire need of replacement.

It's not all the same, by any means. AIUI, big chunks will be replaced; it
may be ALQ-99 in name only when they're done with it.

I wonder if the V-22,
should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
mission?

I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform
for SIGINT.

Indeed. The SIGINT collection task looks to go to UAVs. (the Navy has
swong back and fromth on the MR-UAV and UCAV-N, with the difference being
the degree of loitering reconaisance the platform can do, as opposed to
out-and-back bomb dropping)

A KV-22 tanker is interesting. Depending on the numbers you look at, it may
have rather less gas to pass than a Super Hornet.


--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

"R. David Steele" wrote in message
...

|I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform for
|SIGINT.

Actually it would do well for the Army and Marines. The Army
uses the EH-60A with the Quik-Fix (AN/ALQ-151) system. It is
their main SIGINT system and does countermeasures.

Quickfix is simply a horrible system which is why it's nearly (or is it
completely) gone. Army tactical sigint is still in the 80's.

The RC-12 Guardrail is another platform based on the Beechcraft
Super King Air (C-12). It is a SIGINT, ELINT and COMINT
platform.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell.../guardrail.htm

Thus I do feel that the V-22 could do either the Quickfix or
Guardrail missions for the Army.

Could it do it? Sure. Would it be efficient? Probably not. I can't imagine
it's a great platform for sticking all kinds of antennas on and doing orbits
for hours. If they want a manned platform, a EC-2 might be a good idea but
it looks like UAV's will do it couple with (hopefully) more support fom the
EP-3's.

"Thomas Schoene" wrote in message
ink.net...
Brian wrote:
What amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that
is in dire need of replacement.

It's not all the same, by any means. AIUI, big chunks will be replaced;
it
may be ALQ-99 in name only when they're done with it.

Let's hope so. AOC had a good article on the Growler and indicated it would
be on par with ICAP-III and have a totally new interface. I still think they
need a better jam section.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:37:20 GMT, R. David Steele
wrote:

How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?

As a replacement for the EA-6B - a jammer.

wonder if the V-22,
should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
mission?

I can't see why you would want it for either role. It's not even
remotely the right type of platform.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

In article , R. David
Steele wrote:

| How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?
|
|It's planned to be a EA-6B replacement, that is, stand off jamming. What
|amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that is in dire
|need of replacement.
|
| the P-3 ASW and the EP-3 SIGINT/ELINT platforms are still our
| best lines of "defense", it is jut that they are not tactical
| platforms that can go with the fleet. I wonder if the V-22,
| should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
| as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
| mission?
|
|I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform for
|SIGINT.

Actually it would do well for the Army and Marines. The Army
uses the EH-60A with the Quik-Fix (AN/ALQ-151) system. It is
their main SIGINT system and does countermeasures.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...aft/eh-60a.htm
also the advanced version
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...aft/eh-60l.htm

The RC-12 Guardrail is another platform based on the Beechcraft
Super King Air (C-12). It is a SIGINT, ELINT and COMINT
platform.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell.../guardrail.htm

Thus I do feel that the V-22 could do either the Quickfix or
Guardrail missions for the Army.


Probably so, but do understand they are different missions. Quick-Fix is
a reasonably autonomous platform.

Guardrail is a sensor and relay platform which uses a ground processing
facility; which can trasmit processed intelligence to supported units
via the Guardrail relay. Given there isn't a huge need for EW skill
aboard the Guardrail, it's especially attractive for UAV replacement.

ACS will be replacing the EP-3's by 2015.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:17:31 GMT, "Thomas Schoene"
wrote:

Brian wrote:
"R. David Steele" wrote in message
...
How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?

It's planned to be a EA-6B replacement, that is, stand off jamming.

Also more stand-in escort jamming and SEAD/strike, though not as much as
originally planned, it looks like.

What amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that
is in dire need of replacement.

It's not all the same, by any means. AIUI, big chunks will be replaced; it
may be ALQ-99 in name only when they're done with it.

I wonder if the V-22,
should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
mission?

I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform
for SIGINT.

Indeed. The SIGINT collection task looks to go to UAVs. (the Navy has
swong back and fromth on the MR-UAV and UCAV-N, with the difference being
the degree of loitering reconaisance the platform can do, as opposed to
out-and-back bomb dropping)

A KV-22 tanker is interesting. Depending on the numbers you look at, it may
have rather less gas to pass than a Super Hornet.

Look at ACS David, it is replacing both guardrail and the ARL for the
Army, and the EP-3 for the Navy.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:22:22 GMT, R. David Steele
wrote:


| How is the EA-18G being used, or at least planned for?
|
|It's planned to be a EA-6B replacement, that is, stand off jamming. What
|amazes me is they plan to stick on the same ALQ-99 system that is in dire
|need of replacement.
|
| the P-3 ASW and the EP-3 SIGINT/ELINT platforms are still our
| best lines of "defense", it is jut that they are not tactical
| platforms that can go with the fleet. I wonder if the V-22,
| should it ever become operational, will be able to function well
| as a refueling platform and in the SIGINT/ELINT (tactical)
| mission?
|
|I doubt it, the V-22 doesn't strike me as a very efficient platform for
|SIGINT.

Actually it would do well for the Army and Marines. The Army
uses the EH-60A with the Quik-Fix (AN/ALQ-151) system. It is
their main SIGINT system and does countermeasures.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...aft/eh-60a.htm
also the advanced version
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...aft/eh-60l.htm

The RC-12 Guardrail is another platform based on the Beechcraft
Super King Air (C-12). It is a SIGINT, ELINT and COMINT
platform.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell.../guardrail.htm

Thus I do feel that the V-22 could do either the Quickfix or
Guardrail missions for the Army.

R. David Steele wrote:
Look at ACS David, it is replacing both guardrail and the ARL for the
Army, and the EP-3 for the Navy.

Do you mean the Common Support Aircraft (CSA)?

No, this is a ground-based aircraft, not a carrier plane like CSA.


This is a nice platform that should replace the C-2, C-12, and
S-3. Has it been announced who will make it?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...rcraft/csa.htm

CSA is dead (yor several years). They may not have formally terminated it,
but there's no movement on it, and it does not appear in the Navy's future
aircraft procurement plans.

Also The KC-X or KC-767 program makes sense. Likewise use the
767 (E-767) to replace the E-3 AWACS. There was talk of having a
P-7 which would be based on the 737 (which is being made into a
cheaper AWACS the E-737.

P-7 was actually a P-3 development, not a 737. It was shelved sometime in
the 1990s.

The Navy is now looking at a program called the MAritime Multi-Mission
Aircraft. A 737 deriviative is a candidate for that, competing against a
modernized P-3.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)