Pilot Withdrawl and Miscellaneous Ramblings

Peter Duniho wrote:


The LDS (and other religions') prohibition against alcohol was never a
health issue. So even if your logically incorrect transposition of the
actual medical studies was correct, I see no reason it would have any
bearing on the LDS stance on drinking.

Actually, the wording of section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants,
known as the Word of Wisdom and which contains the prohibition against
"strong drink," (currently interpreted to mean alcoholic beverages and
illegal drugs, but held by the leaders of the church as open to
revision in the event of further light and knowledge), says very
specifically it is for health.

If your doctor prescribed a glass of wine every day the church's
position would be that you should follow your doctor's orders. The
church has long touted the health benefits of following the Word of
Wisdom, but it has always tempered that with the understanding that you
should follow competent medical advice. I doubt that members are going
to start drinking wine without a specific reason to do so, however. I
personally do not like even the smell of the stuff, and given the
history of alcoholism in my family (and the fact that alcoholism is
possibly hereditary) I am probably well advised to stay as far away
from alcoholic beverages as I can.


I do find it ironic that a religion in which a *defining* event within the
religion involved the consumption of wine, and the admonition to repeat that
consumption in the future "in the remembrance of me" would later evolve to
eschew the consumption of said wine. If that's not the opposite of "getting
the point", I don't know what is.

In fact, the church teaches that the members will drink wine with the
Savior when He comes again.

One of the reasons for the prohibition against wine was that there
apparently was an attempt by some enemies of the church to insert
poison in the sacramental wine. Nevertheless, the church continued to
produce wine in Utah up until the early 20th century, when it abandoned
wine even for sacramental purposes.

There are some members who will tell you that the Savior only drank
grape juice with the Apostles at Passover, which goes to show that if
you get enough people into an organization that some of them will be,
um, silly. I guess they are entitled to think whatever they want, but
there is no scriptural or authoritative basis for such a belief.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Everyone now knows that eating a hot dog on Friday isn't going to
send you straight to Hell, everyone now knows that forcing little kids to
sit still and not talk for an hour each day is almost guaranteed to drive
them away from the church as adults, and everyone now knows that beating
children is a poor way to teach.

A Jew, a Catholic, and an Episcopalian appeared at the gates of Hell,
ready to begin their sentence of eternal torment. The Devil asked the
Jew what he was here for. "Well, once, when I was a teenager, I ate a
ham sandwich." The Devil said, "That is right. So now you are to burn
in Hell forever. You, Catholic, what are you here for?" "Well, before
Vatican II, I ate a hot dog on Friday." "That is right," roared the
Devil. "You are damned to burn eternally in Hell. You, Episcopalian,
what could have possibly done to earn eternal torment?" "I used the
wrong fork."

Jay Honeck wrote:
Since you're LDS, scratch the buying them drink idea Hehehe...

Hey, maybe you guys can address this for me.

There are lots of LDS here in Iowa City (a major road here is called "Mormon
Trek Drive")

My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.

There are lots of LDS here in Iowa City (a major road here is called
"Mormon
Trek Drive")

My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.

It's quite a story. Those people were tough.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.

It's quite a story. Those people were tough.

The way I hear it is that "wagon train to Utah" is the reason the
Mormons got multiple wives in the first place. Husbands died on the
trail to Utah, killed by Indians, died of diseases, accidents and
sometimes just plain murder by their fellow wagoneers. The remaining
families would "take in" the families that lost their husband/father.
The mothers would become the additional wives to the remaining men. It
was out of necessity and human spirit to help the fellow man/woman, and
some of them dead guys just plain left behind cute wives. sic g

The Monk

("cjcampbell" wrote)
My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.


How much of that "walk" was beating feet out of town?


Montblack

Flyingmonk wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:
My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.

It's quite a story. Those people were tough.

The way I hear it is that "wagon train to Utah" is the reason the
Mormons got multiple wives in the first place.

No. Plural marriage was being practiced before that time.

Montblack wrote:
("cjcampbell" wrote)
My great-great grandfather, Eli Campbell, walked from Iowa City to Salt
Lake when he was three years old.


How much of that "walk" was beating feet out of town?


In his case, none of it. He was only three years old. :-)

Actually, Iowa City was an important re-supply point for both Mormon
and non-Mormon pioneers headed west. Some members of the church who
were leaving Nauvoo and Winter Quarters were assigned to remain in Iowa
City to establish a camp there for future wagon trains. Eli's family
was one of these and stayed in Iowa City as missionaries assigned to
assist wagon trains headed to the Salt Lake valley. Eli was born in
Iowa City during this time. When his parents' mission was completed
they continued west. Eventually the family settled in Idaho. You can
read about them in an old book, "Notable Men of Idaho" that was
published around the turn of the 20th century. It was a sort of
forerunner of "Who's Who."

It was a rough life. Eli became a teamster carrying freight between
Ogden and Boise. His father, Daniel, carried mail and worked for Orrin
Porter Rockwell, Brigham Young's bodyguard who was responsible for all
kinds of church security in those days. Daniel Campbell's
responsibility included acting as an Indian agent for the church,
overseeing trade and settling disputes with pioneers. There is a story
about how one time he was being pursued by hostile Indians and he rode
his horse across a river near Idaho Falls to safety. It was difficult
as this happened during the spring melt, with chunks of ice coming down
the river. He apparently never fully recovered from the ordeal. The
Indians were evidently after his horse and the mail.

Generally, the church had good relations with the Indians and counted
on alliances with various tribes in times of crisis. It could not have
done this without men like Daniel Campbell.

The way I hear it is that "wagon train to Utah" is the reason the
Mormons got multiple wives in the first place.

No. Plural marriage was being practiced before that time.

This was explained to me by the elders in our church in the mid 80's.