Getting a little sick of it all

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:16:29 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

You fly just 2 hours per month?

I flew 4 hours in October. Flew 3.4 in November. Put 2.7 on it in
February.
Didn't see the plane at all in December or January, so, yeah.

Sounds to me like the infamous Maule "heater" syndrome?

:-)

Here in the upper left corner, it's the infamous "precipitation" syndrome.
I got ~2 hours in January, part due to rain and the other part being
downtime while I was installing a new transponder.

I fly ~40 hours/year, so I'm just a bit more than 3 hours/month average.
It does tend to peak in the summer months, though.

When I quit flying for a number of years, the instructor gave me 1.5 hours
of dual (in my new 150) before signing off my BFR and sending me on my
merry way. When I first started flying the club Fly Baby, I got 1 hour of
taildragger refresher (no TD time for about ten years) and the instructor
said I was good to go.

"Flying is like riding a bicycle, except it's harder to put playing cards
in the spokes."
- MAD Magazine

Ron Wanttaja

In article SBS1c.42336$ko6.374355@attbi_s02, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Well, if you don't feel comfortable sharing with me, then stay on the
ground.

You fly just 2 hours per month?

cripes, between work, the crappy weather, and getting a whopper
of the flu, yesterday was the first time I flew since Thanksgiving.

--
Bob Noel

In article , "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

What I will never understand are the owners who almost never fly. I can
see a temporary stretch of low or no activity for health, financial or
other oersonal reasons, but there are so many who own an aircraft for
years and just let it sit. I don't get it.

Ego? Some weird sentimental attachment?

Once the airplane is paid for and has sat for a year or two, it
really doesn't cost the owner much to let an airplane sit longer.
I was almost in that position (long story) - while I was deciding
what to do with my airplane, it only cost me insurance (non-flying)
and tie-down ($45/month) to have the airplane sit there.

--
Bob Noel

Jay Honeck wrote:
Besides, with the inst rating, I prefer to fly on the scuzzy
days and save the gorgeous days for doing things outside.


Man, no offense, but that's kinda warped.

I hope flying never gets that way for me.

Most kinds of days are good for flying, but there's nothing like slipping the
surly bonds on a miserable overcast rainy day and flying in the sunshine.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:hoM1c.43350$PR3.848841@attbi_s03...
Two hours/month; seems hardly worth the bother.

That's for sure.

Of course, that's an AVERAGE number. In that total you've got folks like
Mary and me, who fly every few days -- AND the folks who own the Hangar
Queens that never, ever move.

Which brings up two more questions he

1. WHY own a plane, and never fly it?
2. Do you feel comfortable sharing the sky with someone who flies just 2
hours per month?

Well, added it up, I flew 30 hours 55 minutes over the past year.

1) I fly whenever I can. Even if only for a 45 minute local jaunt. In
fact, most of my flying is 45min - 1.5 hour local. Why own? Because
if I didn't, I'd be doing maybe 10-12 hours a year. Maybe not even
that. Maybe I'd have given up. As it is, I can drive down and take off
whenever the weather's nice and I have time. I can fly "home" for the
weekend, I can fly away all day, I can go and have a two hour lunch
somewhere and not have to worry about getting the plane back for the
next person within a 2 hour slot. I don't have to book two weeks in
advance and hope for the best weather wise then wait another two
weeks before trying again if I can't fly.

I also like the plane I have, none of this Cessper stuff.

Is my flying worth the bother? Well, judge from my previous posts
on here! :-)

2) As the low time pilot, I have observed two things. If I fly during the
week, I'm usually the least competent, at least everyone else seems to
know exactly what they're doing. If I fly at weekends, my relative
confidence/competence level seems to go up quite a bit!

Paul

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Looks like The Federal Government Is going to get $3,700 off me for
Capital
Gains I would rather give that money to a private party on a reinvestment
than the Federal Goverment.



Why is this relevent? How is buying an airplane going to defer your gains?

Mike
MU-2


"John Galban" wrote in message
m...
"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit
looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.


I saw this coming when you posted that you had cash and were looking
for a "quick sale". As I recall, I mentioned something to the effect
that this would seem very attractive to junk dealers. To them, a
quick sale means that you will not dig deep as far as inspections and
paperwork are concerned.

It sounds to me like you are taking your time to make a thoroughly
informed purchasing decision. People selling junk do not take kindly
to this. Too bad for them. Don't get worked up about it. Don't
argue with them on the phone. Just walk away. The moment a seller
tells you that you can't have your independent A&P inspect the
aircraft, just thank him for his time and walk away. This is not a
person from which you want to be buying an aircraft.

Ultimately, patience is the key to getting a good one. It takes a
lot of time, looking at a lot of junk, to find a good reliable
airplane that is reasonably priced (unless you're very lucky).

It took me six months to find my first airplane and 3 months to find
my second. In both cases, I stumbled across my eventual purchase
before it was advertised. Also in both cases, I spent most of the
total time looking at airplanes that were eventually found to be
unsuitable for one reason or another. It's the price you have to pay
to weed out the not-so-great airplanes from the great ones. It is not
a quick process and IMHO, not a particularly enjoyable experience to
have to repeatedly waste time wading through logbooks of aircraft you
won't purchase.

Why bother? I have several friends and acquaintences that didn't do
a thorough job in the weeding process and had to live with the
results. For the most part, they regretted it for a long time (and
many paychecks). A few became disenchanted with ownership and sold
out at a loss, never to return to ownership. So, just have some
patience with the process and do not buy anything that you didn't
thoroughly check out. Some of the scariest planes I ever saw had sexy
new paint jobs and sparkling interiors.

Good Luck,

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Jay Honeck wrote:
Two hours/month; seems hardly worth the bother.
That's for sure.

That's NOT for sure. There are times that I can only fly 2 hours per
month, but I'll bet I'm just as good as a pilot as you, if not better.

Of course, that's an AVERAGE number. In that total you've got folks like
Mary and me, who fly every few days -- AND the folks who own the Hangar
Queens that never, ever move.

Which brings up two more questions he

1. WHY own a plane, and never fly it?
2. Do you feel comfortable sharing the sky with someone who flies just 2
hours per month?

I think the 2 hour a month generalization is misleading. If you fly once
a month, for 2 hours, then you're probably rusty. If you fly once a
week, for a 1/2 hour, which has several takeoffs and landings, then
you're probably staying as sharp as anyone else (other than the guys who
are lucky enough to fly every day).

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

Good points. The "accepted market value" is for an average airplane. The
average airplane gets repaired when it is unairworthy and issues are
deferred if possible. All the owners here think that their airplanes are
"well maintained" so it is like the situation with drivers, 97% of whom
think that they are better than average.

Mike
MU-2

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote in message
news
On 4 Mar 2004 15:36:15 -0800, (John Galban) wrote:

"Roger Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down
...
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

My thought is, how many airplanes (percentage-wise) would pass the
"gauntlet" as-it-were (as it is being described here) without some
other mechanic picking up some previously missed item or items? I
mean, how many airplanes (in our aging fleet) are truly squeaky clean?

For those airplanes that are squeaky clean, what is that worth in the
marketplace? Might it be worth a premium over what might be called
a "standard" (going) price? In the collector / vintage car market,
there are rather well defined categories with regards to pedigree,
condition, originality, etc. Original cream puffs or expertly
restored examples bring top dollar. Junk brings bottom dollar, with
everything in-between.

Like another poster stated, these airplanes are getting old (50+
years in many cases). There are completely, lovingly restored
cream-puff airplanes out there for sale, but the owners of such are
not exactly giving them away. On the other end of the spectrum, there
are complete pieces of worn out junk out there as well, masquerading
as good, solid airplanes.

I'm inclined to think along the lines of, does the current "accepted
market value" for a particular type of airplane mean it needs to
be a perfect / cream puff example? I think if you're looking for a
perfect, "cream-puff" airplane, you should be prepared to pay for it.
Suffice it to say, it will be cheaper to pay top dollar for a cream
puff as opposed to buying a junker and trying to make cream puff out
of it (at least if you just write checks to have it restored as
opposed to doing it yourself). If you're looking for a deal too good
to be true, it probably is, so be careful out there.

Somewhere between these two extremes, (junkers & cream puffs) good
airplanes can be bought that will bring years of good service &
enjoyment.

Bela P. Havasreti

Jay Honeck wrote:

Didn't see the plane at all in December or January, so, yeah.

Sounds to me like the infamous Maule "heater" syndrome?

Partly, but we had storms early in January, and the temperature didn't get
above freezing all month. The plane was encased in ice for over three weeks.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
...the temperature didn't get above freezing all month.
The plane was encased in ice for over three weeks.

Ick.

And I bitch about summer down here...
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)