Best way to identify fix?

wrote in news:1112058480.280994.48230
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Hi. simulator pilot that enjoys flying IFR procedures here. How is this
hold entered? As I understand, BNA R-016 past BNA 24.7 DME (or LVT 270
radial), then a 180 degree turn southbound until reaching TANDS again,
and then left standard turn to 016? Any restrictions for the
southbound turn after passing TANDS the first time?

Turn to the holding side, to insure you don't fly outside protected
airspace. This would be a parallel entry, thus a right turn, to a
heading to intercept the 016 radial inbound to TANDS. In practice, you
can intercept the 016 anywhere prior to or at TANDS, then hold as
published, and if you don't quite intercept the radial prior to TANDS,
then just turn outbound abeam it.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

wrote in message ups.com...
wrote:
Roy Smith wrote:

I was looking at some old IFR Refreshers tonight, and found the IFR
Quiz
from September 2002. See
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/00282I2C.PDF.
[snip]

The sloppy tanget to the BNA DME would exist only if you were flying
along the
LVT 270 radial. But, you're not. In the context of that approach
chart you
flew the missed approach northbound on the BNA 016 radial until
either BNA
24.7 DME or until crossing the LVT 270 radial northbound tracking BNA
016
radial.
Then, you enter the hold flying on-course southbound on the BNA 016
back to
TANDS.

Hi. simulator pilot that enjoys flying IFR procedures here. How is this
hold entered? As I understand, BNA R-016 past BNA 24.7 DME (or LVT 270
radial), then a 180 degree turn southbound until reaching TANDS again,
and then left standard turn to 016? Any restrictions for the
southbound turn after passing TANDS the first time?


No, a teardrop entry. BNA R016 past BNA 24.7 DME, then right turn 30 degrees to 046. Fly one minute, turn
left , twist OBS to 196, and continue your turn to intercept 196 inbound.

Not sure how Stan came up with a parallel entry for this (maybe from your description he thought you were
coming from the east or something).

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

I'm pretty new at this, just took my checkride on Saturday, but it looks to
me like you are right on the line between parallel and teardrop.

Here's my question. When either parallel or teardrop could be used, is there
a preference for one over the other? You could argue that teardrop is
preferred because it is more likely to keep you on the protected side, so
when it is a toss up. that's the way you should go, but I'm wondering if
there are any other considerations.

Brad


"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
Roy Smith wrote:

I was looking at some old IFR Refreshers tonight, and found the IFR
Quiz
from September 2002. See
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/00282I2C.PDF.
[snip]

The sloppy tanget to the BNA DME would exist only if you were flying
along the
LVT 270 radial. But, you're not. In the context of that approach
chart you
flew the missed approach northbound on the BNA 016 radial until
either BNA
24.7 DME or until crossing the LVT 270 radial northbound tracking BNA
016
radial.
Then, you enter the hold flying on-course southbound on the BNA 016
back to
TANDS.

Hi. simulator pilot that enjoys flying IFR procedures here. How is this
hold entered? As I understand, BNA R-016 past BNA 24.7 DME (or LVT 270
radial), then a 180 degree turn southbound until reaching TANDS again,
and then left standard turn to 016? Any restrictions for the
southbound turn after passing TANDS the first time?


No, a teardrop entry. BNA R016 past BNA 24.7 DME, then right turn 30
degrees to 046. Fly one minute, turn
left , twist OBS to 196, and continue your turn to intercept 196 inbound.

Not sure how Stan came up with a parallel entry for this (maybe from your
description he thought you were
coming from the east or something).

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Brad Salai" wrote in
:

I'm pretty new at this, just took my checkride on Saturday, but it
looks to me like you are right on the line between parallel and
teardrop.

Here's my question. When either parallel or teardrop could be used, is
there a preference for one over the other? You could argue that
teardrop is preferred because it is more likely to keep you on the
protected side, so when it is a toss up. that's the way you should go,
but I'm wondering if there are any other considerations.

If you're doing it for yourself, in the real world, either will work, as
long as you stay on the protected side. For checkride purposes, some
examiners can be very picky, and want to see exactly the recommended
entry, which means the least turn outbound, usually. It also depends on
the level of the checkride as to how picky the examiner may be. An ATP
ride is different from a PPL ride.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Stan Gosnell wrote:
If you're doing it for yourself, in the real world, either will work, as
long as you stay on the protected side. For checkride purposes, some
examiners can be very picky, and want to see exactly the recommended
entry, which means the least turn outbound, usually.

In theory, the examiner is supposed to stick to the PTS. However, we
all know that getting into a ****ing contest with an examiner is a
no-win situation.

It also depends on the level of the checkride as to how picky the
examiner may be. An ATP ride is different from a PPL ride.

I suspect there is actually some logic to this. Most private pilots
are going to be flying things that hold at 90 or maybe 120 kts (sure,
some of us are flying 170 kt Bonanzas or Mooneys, but hopefully
they're not holding at cruise speed). The turn radii at those speeds
is small enough that any old entry will keep you within the protected
area. An ATP is more likely to be flying something that's going to
hold at 200 kts and may be making less than standard rate turns.
Under those conditions, making the best entry becomes more of an
issue.

On 29 Mar 2005 19:07:25 GMT, Stan Gosnell wrote:

If you're doing it for yourself, in the real world, either will work, as
long as you stay on the protected side. For checkride purposes, some
examiners can be very picky, and want to see exactly the recommended
entry, which means the least turn outbound, usually


the practical test standards only require that the applicant remain in
holding airspace, "picky" examiners notwithstanding.

No "recommended entry" required.

On 29 Mar 2005 14:26:40 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:

In theory, the examiner is supposed to stick to the PTS. However, we
all know that getting into a ****ing contest with an examiner is a
no-win situation.


then don't get into a ****ing contest.

Simply get the facts together and present your case to the proper
authorities. Examiners don't get an automatic win.

An even better option is to get it straight before the test starts.

(Roy Smith) wrote in :

I suspect there is actually some logic to this. Most private pilots
are going to be flying things that hold at 90 or maybe 120 kts (sure,
some of us are flying 170 kt Bonanzas or Mooneys, but hopefully
they're not holding at cruise speed). The turn radii at those speeds
is small enough that any old entry will keep you within the protected
area. An ATP is more likely to be flying something that's going to
hold at 200 kts and may be making less than standard rate turns.
Under those conditions, making the best entry becomes more of an
issue.

Well, I fly a helicopter that can, if I need it to, turn well inside a
C150, and hold at 60 or 70 kts. But I still had to use the recommended
entries. And you're right, there is real world and there is checkride,
and only a fool argues with the examiner about these things.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin