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#11
July 24th 03, 05:52 PM
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"Andre" wrote in message
... I have seen on the Great Plains Web site that they repeatedly recommend using a fuel pump. They also recommend putting the fuel pump between the Gascolator and the Carb. What happens if the fuel pump fails or loses power? How much fuel pressure will the fuel pump add? Won't the aditional fuel pressure possibly flood the carb? How do I rig a return line to the fuel tank? Why should a fuel pump be installed between the gascolator and carb? Any Ideas? Andre......... An electric fuel pump shuts off when the fuel pressure rises to ~6 psig. The carb needle valve easily handles that much. If the fuel pump is downstream of the gascolator, the gascolator isn't pressurized. This reduces the possibility of a gascolator failure which could dump your fuel in a hurry. It also means that the electric fuel pump is ahead of the firewall. This is both good and bad. In the event of a fuel leak in the cockpit, the pump won't be helping to fill the footwell with gas. The bad part is the pump is exposed to engine heat. In the Sonerai, as in the RV's, I'd install the electric pump at the tank outlet. Electric pumps push fuel much better than they pull it. Just my opinion, tho. Rich S. 
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#12
July 24th 03, 07:34 PM
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"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message
... Definitely words to 'live' by, Rich. Coming back from Seattle to Kansas City after visiting with you Arlington yahoos-- it was IFR... and Rand McNally all the way. Never got over 9500 feet through the Rockies. Barnyard BOb - I_F_ollow_R_oads 50 years of flight After Helena, my child bride wisely *insisted* that we do just that. We were both a lot happier within gliding distance of that nice big SAC runway that DDE spent our taxes building. There are a lot of acres in Montana that even the jackrabbits pack a lunch to cross. Rich S.
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#14
July 25th 03, 02:51 AM
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Adding a blast tube to direct fresh air onto the pumps helps.
Bruce A. Frank "Rich S." wrote in message ... "Andre" wrote in message ... I have seen on the Great Plains Web site that they repeatedly recommend using a fuel pump. They also recommend putting the fuel pump between the Gascolator and the Carb. What happens if the fuel pump fails or loses power? How much fuel pressure will the fuel pump add? Won't the aditional fuel pressure possibly flood the carb? How do I rig a return line to the fuel tank? Why should a fuel pump be installed between the gascolator and carb? Any Ideas? Andre......... An electric fuel pump shuts off when the fuel pressure rises to ~6 psig. The carb needle valve easily handles that much. If the fuel pump is downstream of the gascolator, the gascolator isn't pressurized. This reduces the possibility of a gascolator failure which could dump your fuel in a hurry. It also means that the electric fuel pump is ahead of the firewall. This is both good and bad. In the event of a fuel leak in the cockpit, the pump won't be helping to fill the footwell with gas. The bad part is the pump is exposed to engine heat. In the Sonerai, as in the RV's, I'd install the electric pump at the tank outlet. Electric pumps push fuel much better than they pull it. Just my opinion, tho. Rich S.
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#15
July 25th 03, 04:35 AM
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Adding a blast tube to direct fresh air onto the pumps helps. Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HELPS? ARRGH! "HELPS" is not good enough. In fact, going down the road of "helps".... is a very dangerous and risky one. A FIX is what is required. Nothing less is acceptable. Nothing less is defensible, IMO. Barnyard BOb -- ================================================== = "Rich S." wrote in message ... "Andre" wrote in message ... I have seen on the Great Plains Web site that they repeatedly recommend using a fuel pump. They also recommend putting the fuel pump between the Gascolator and the Carb. What happens if the fuel pump fails or loses power? How much fuel pressure will the fuel pump add? Won't the aditional fuel pressure possibly flood the carb? How do I rig a return line to the fuel tank? Why should a fuel pump be installed between the gascolator and carb? Any Ideas? Andre......... An electric fuel pump shuts off when the fuel pressure rises to ~6 psig. The carb needle valve easily handles that much. If the fuel pump is downstream of the gascolator, the gascolator isn't pressurized. This reduces the possibility of a gascolator failure which could dump your fuel in a hurry. It also means that the electric fuel pump is ahead of the firewall. This is both good and bad. In the event of a fuel leak in the cockpit, the pump won't be helping to fill the footwell with gas. The bad part is the pump is exposed to engine heat. In the Sonerai, as in the RV's, I'd install the electric pump at the tank outlet. Electric pumps push fuel much better than they pull it. Just my opinion, tho. Rich S.
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#16
July 25th 03, 09:52 AM
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Thanx all!
I'm reading these comments as if my life depends on it... Can anyone recommend more reading material on the topic please? Rich I see you mention: "if Tony Bingelis had devoted a full page in "Firewall Forward"" Is that a book? And is that good reading? Andre "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message ... Adding a blast tube to direct fresh air onto the pumps helps. Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HELPS? ARRGH! "HELPS" is not good enough. In fact, going down the road of "helps".... is a very dangerous and risky one. A FIX is what is required. Nothing less is acceptable. Nothing less is defensible, IMO. Barnyard BOb -- ================================================== = "Rich S." wrote in message ... "Andre" wrote in message ... I have seen on the Great Plains Web site that they repeatedly recommend using a fuel pump. They also recommend putting the fuel pump between the Gascolator and the Carb. What happens if the fuel pump fails or loses power? How much fuel pressure will the fuel pump add? Won't the aditional fuel pressure possibly flood the carb? How do I rig a return line to the fuel tank? Why should a fuel pump be installed between the gascolator and carb? Any Ideas? Andre......... An electric fuel pump shuts off when the fuel pressure rises to ~6 psig. The carb needle valve easily handles that much. If the fuel pump is downstream of the gascolator, the gascolator isn't pressurized. This reduces the possibility of a gascolator failure which could dump your fuel in a hurry. It also means that the electric fuel pump is ahead of the firewall. This is both good and bad. In the event of a fuel leak in the cockpit, the pump won't be helping to fill the footwell with gas. The bad part is the pump is exposed to engine heat. In the Sonerai, as in the RV's, I'd install the electric pump at the tank outlet. Electric pumps push fuel much better than they pull it. Just my opinion, tho. Rich S.
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#17
July 25th 03, 12:12 PM
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"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message .. . Adding a blast tube to direct fresh air onto the pumps helps. Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HELPS? ARRGH! "HELPS" is not good enough. In fact, going down the road of "helps".... is a very dangerous and risky one. A FIX is what is required. Nothing less is acceptable. Nothing less is defensible, IMO. Barnyard BOb -- Alright already! Poor selection of words! To eliminate the likelihood of vapor lock, an electric fuel pump on the engine side of the firewall needs to be installed so as to be bathed in a good flow of unheated air or, if such a position is not available, a blast tube must be installed! Definitive enough? Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sorry, my point has nothing to do with parsing a definition. Every fuel system on mogas needs to be TESTED/PROVEN per Rich S.'s parameters. Screw warm and fuzzy definitions. For my money, the electric fuel pump should be installed OUTSIDE the engine compartment and PUSH the mogas.... not suck it, to the engine - if I'm going to even consider mogas at 10,000 feet at elevated temps, like 90+ degrees. FWIW - My RV-3 with gravity feed system has run on mogas for over 440 hours [for me] without a stumble or burp. Some of it has been at 9500 ft at elevated temps, but not enough to feel 100% safe on every possible blend, combination and variant of mogas. Rich S. has made a believer out of me when it comes to mogas, mountain flying and high summer temps. I'll not do it..... no matter where the electric fuel pump or blast tube is or isn't. Barnyard BOb -- to old to be bold
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#18
July 25th 03, 04:15 PM
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"Andre" wrote in message
... Thanx all! I'm reading these comments as if my life depends on it... Can anyone recommend more reading material on the topic please? Rich I see you mention: "if Tony Bingelis had devoted a full page in "Firewall Forward"" Is that a book? And is that good reading? It is. Tony was a writer for Sport Aviation for many years, a prolific builder and an avid proponent of homebuilding. Among many other airplanes, he built two - TWO - Emeraudes. Building just one is more than enough for one lifetime! He built several of the Van's RV series and a Falco. His books are available through the EAA and many other sources. You'll probably find some in the FlyMart at OSH. They are a must-read for every homebuilder. Rich S.
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#19
July 25th 03, 06:33 PM
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But BOb, my first post emphasized pushing the fuel. The follow up was a
comment on assuring cool components to prevent vapor lock. Hmmm, I'm outa practice here...been working too much (sometimes actually working on my plane) and my editorial composition skills appear to have degraded somewhat. I'll endeavor to remedied that. Bruce A. Frank "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message ... "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message .. . Adding a blast tube to direct fresh air onto the pumps helps. Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HELPS? ARRGH! "HELPS" is not good enough. In fact, going down the road of "helps".... is a very dangerous and risky one. A FIX is what is required. Nothing less is acceptable. Nothing less is defensible, IMO. Barnyard BOb -- Alright already! Poor selection of words! To eliminate the likelihood of vapor lock, an electric fuel pump on the engine side of the firewall needs to be installed so as to be bathed in a good flow of unheated air or, if such a position is not available, a blast tube must be installed! Definitive enough? Bruce A. Frank +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sorry, my point has nothing to do with parsing a definition. Every fuel system on mogas needs to be TESTED/PROVEN per Rich S.'s parameters. Screw warm and fuzzy definitions. For my money, the electric fuel pump should be installed OUTSIDE the engine compartment and PUSH the mogas.... not suck it, to the engine - if I'm going to even consider mogas at 10,000 feet at elevated temps, like 90+ degrees. FWIW - My RV-3 with gravity feed system has run on mogas for over 440 hours [for me] without a stumble or burp. Some of it has been at 9500 ft at elevated temps, but not enough to feel 100% safe on every possible blend, combination and variant of mogas. Rich S. has made a believer out of me when it comes to mogas, mountain flying and high summer temps. I'll not do it..... no matter where the electric fuel pump or blast tube is or isn't. Barnyard BOb -- to old to be bold
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#20
July 28th 03, 04:07 PM
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"Andre" wrote in message
... Thanx Rich! I have just placed my orderfor the "Firewall Forward" book. Hopefully UPS will have it here in South Africa by the end of the week. Now I'm looking forward to some winter reading in front of the fireplace! :-) Question: How does Tony Bingelis "Firewall Forward" book compare to "Bingelis on Engines", considering that I'm running a VW engine? The two books are comparable, Andre. "Firewall Forward" may be a bit more comprehensive, but "TB on Engines" appears to be a later, slicker volume. I bought the whole series - as little as I knew about aircraft when I started my project, I needed all the help I could get! Rich S.
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