A Random Comment

Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

"birdog" wrote in message
...
Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess
it was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't
want to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that
kind of parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler
with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

I forgot to mention something that might be of interest. Learning to fly
these RC toys is about as hard as the real thing, and my piloting experience
helped me not one wit. Unless you want to tear up your expensive little
model, everyone gets help from an experienced modeler.
Duel lasts only long enough to be sure you can hit the runway, and not take
some by standers head off.

Is there an RC modeler out there who would like to challange MX on reality?
That might be interesting!

"birdog" wrote in message
...
Learning to fly these RC toys is about as hard as the real thing, and my
piloting experience helped me not one wit.

In the soaring world, I know of at least two cases where previous RC experience
seemed to transfer very well to the "real thing". Not so much in the actual
mechanics of learning how to solo, but in learning how to stay up and go
somewhere once solo in achieved.

Vaughn

On May 23, 7:42*am, "vaughn" wrote:

In the soaring world, I know of at least two cases where previous RC experience
seemed to transfer very well to the "real thing". *Not so much in the actual
mechanics of learning how to solo, but in *learning how to stay up and go
somewhere once solo in achieved.

Mate of mine is a 10,000 hour plus ag pilot. His hobby is radio
controlled model aircraft.

Says the models are harder to fly than his Cresco

FWIW..

I have been flying RC Models since '63, full size since '82....

Many skills from RC models transfer easily to full size aircraft
poiloting, and skilled RC pilots can progress rapidly through the
"flying" part of pilot training.

Full size pilots usually take LONGER to be comfortable flying RC,
usually due to the lack of sensory inputs from stall, airspeed and
attitude indicators and their "butt". The interpetation of speeds and
attitudes all (and only) visually at a distance is difficult.

I have trained several to fly RC and there is some "unlearning"
involved.

And there are some that think that after several hundred hours in a
full size plane this "toy" airplane should be a "no brainer" to
fly!...

BIG mistake!!

Dave



On Sat, 22 May 2010 15:42:27 -0400, "vaughn"
wrote:


"birdog" wrote in message
...
Learning to fly these RC toys is about as hard as the real thing, and my
piloting experience helped me not one wit.

In the soaring world, I know of at least two cases where previous RC experience
seemed to transfer very well to the "real thing". Not so much in the actual
mechanics of learning how to solo, but in learning how to stay up and go
somewhere once solo in achieved.

Vaughn

On May 28, 10:47*pm, Dave wrote:

Full size pilots usually take LONGER to be comfortable *flying RC,

Full-sized pilots?

Wha chu talkin' bout Willis?

---
Mark

On May 28, 9:47*pm, Dave wrote:

Full size pilots usually take LONGER to be comfortable *flying RC,
usually due to the lack of sensory inputs from stall, airspeed and
attitude indicators and their "butt". *The interpetation of speeds and
attitudes *all (and only) visually at a distance is difficult.

I have trained several to fly RC and there is some "unlearning"
involved.

And there are some that think that after several hundred hours in a
full size plane *this "toy" airplane should be a "no brainer" to
fly!...

BIG mistake!!


Yep, all the above applied to me. Fortunately my crash and burns
didn't require a second mortgage though part of the fun for me was the
construction.

What was even harder flying the durn thing was correlating control
inputs as mirror image when the plane was coming TOWARD me.

"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close
to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation.
During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that
was quite active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found
out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually
defensive - just avoided me as much as possible. I think they all
wanted to be pilots, but for some reason - finances (althought some of
those models were more expensive than some of our early planes), the
wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw for me when I saw a
picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with helmet,
goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire if you
tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of people
based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason why you
ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because you might have
been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude? In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is equal
probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole group of
people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but not
you?

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close
to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation.
During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that
was quite active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found
out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually
defensive - just avoided me as much as possible. I think they all
wanted to be pilots, but for some reason - finances (althought some of
those models were more expensive than some of our early planes), the
wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw for me when I saw a
picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with helmet,
goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire if you
tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of people
based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason why you
ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because you might have
been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude? In other words, if
one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is equal
probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole group of
people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that a group
having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but not
you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all? Why are you being defensive? While
I may be an obnoxious *******, I did make a few friends at the time, some
with whom I still communicate.

"birdog" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay
close to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and
simulation. During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a
"flying" club that was quite active. But more than a few
radiologists, when they found out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda
sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me as much as
possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some reason
- finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final
straw for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing
a modeler with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire
if you tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of
people based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason
why you ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because
you might have been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude?
In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is
equal probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole
group of people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that
a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but
not you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)