My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:58:02 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"David G. Nagel" wrote

Hydro and it's problems.

Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting,
and has the advantage of helping to control floods.

Lot of ecological side effects. Good for short term flood control, but
may cause problems long term. A lot depends on the area where the dam
is located.

What sort of "problems"?

On 2007-10-21 14:58:02 -0700, "Morgans" said:


"David G. Nagel" wrote

Hydro and it's problems.

Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting,
and has the advantage of helping to control floods.

Here in the west there is considerable pressure to dismantle the dams
already in place. They are being blamed for weak salmon runs (as if
over-fishing and the recovery in the seal and sea lion population have
had nothing to do with it), concentration of heavy metals near the
dams, flooding of "critical habitat," and just about every other sin
people can think of.

There are environmentalists who believe that the worst possible thing
that could happen to the earth would be for someone to discover a
cheap, non-polluting source of energy.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

These are the same people who think that we should get rid of all the people
of the world except for a few hundred of their fellow believers.


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:200710240644108930-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2007-10-21 14:58:02 -0700, "Morgans" said:


"David G. Nagel" wrote

Hydro and it's problems.

Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non
polluting,
and has the advantage of helping to control floods.

Here in the west there is considerable pressure to dismantle the dams
already in place. They are being blamed for weak salmon runs (as if
over-fishing and the recovery in the seal and sea lion population have had
nothing to do with it), concentration of heavy metals near the dams,
flooding of "critical habitat," and just about every other sin people can
think of.

There are environmentalists who believe that the worst possible thing that
could happen to the earth would be for someone to discover a cheap,
non-polluting source of energy.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article ,
Morgans wrote:

"Edward A. Falk" wrote

... With solar panels on the roof to charge it,
it becomes pretty green.

Unless you park it for a few weeks between uses, solar cells don't come
close to providing enough power to make it a viable charging option.

Ooops. My bad. I meant the roof of my house.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Morgans wrote:

"Edward A. Falk" wrote

... With solar panels on the roof to charge it,
it becomes pretty green.

Unless you park it for a few weeks between uses, solar cells don't come
close to providing enough power to make it a viable charging option.

Ooops. My bad. I meant the roof of my house.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

So you charge it at night from the solar panels?

Or perhaps you charge batteries in the house on good weather days, and
then transfer to your car at night?

Sunlight
(with losses) Solar panel on house
(with losses) Battery in house
(with losses) Battery in car
(with losses) motor.

This is pretty green?

How many good weather days will it take to drive to work once?

Al G

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media...pa20071880.pdf
suggests the sun has no effect on climate.

Or, that we we cannot presently correlate sun and climate. Or there is
some interfering data swamping a comparatively small effect.

If not the sun, how about our dirt? It lives, excretes, and is deep,
to boot. Who understands zero gee fission? we are ice on a fireball.
We are the snowball surrounding hell, walking around on a little
insulating frozen rock floating on a lake of magma.

Cheap renewable power? Geothermal, solar steam, wind, tidal.

Real expense? Transmission, overpopulation?

Private planes to eliminate highway congestion? The highway, be it
asphalt or air, is no more than an extension of the parking lot. Are
we gonna have sky garages 20 floors tall and elevator parking for
excess idle Mohler sky machinery, or are we gonna take air taxis? How
many pedestrians squashed by crashing cabs before we try dirigible
busses, or living with parachutes in our office?

I see city buildings before commuter conveniences. Land is limited. I
see deep wells for Icelandic power, even air conditioning. I see tube
trains surrounding volcanic artifacts linking ring of fire hot spots.
I count the calories produced by cities in their warm spots with their
reflective sky scrapers and steam pipes warmed by moving lightweight
reflectors.

I see wind power to produce compressed air, liquid nitrogen and
ultimately, hydrogen to be burned on site to put power into the grid
when needed.

Can liquid nitrogen be used to operate a Stirling cycle engine or
turbine warmed by ambient air? What is it's energy density next to
gasoline or hydrogen? What about it's seasonal efficiency?

Our oil problems are really political marketing.

Terry K

"Terry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media...pa20071880.pdf
suggests the sun has no effect on climate.

I guess they never heard of "seasons".

This paper refutes the above paper:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...e_lockwood.pdf

On 31 Oct 2007 15:16:07 -0700, Terry K wrote:


http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media...pa20071880.pdf
suggests the sun has no effect on climate.

Or, that we we cannot presently correlate sun and climate. Or there is
some interfering data swamping a comparatively small effect.

The sun's effect is easily measured and has been for decades.
It's done by a method called the "pan evaporation rate". The
inconsistency is the pan evaporation rate has been going down for at
least the last three decades or more. That would indicate the amount
of energy from the sun reaching the earth has been steadily dropping
for over 30 years. A Google search should give the process in detail.


If not the sun, how about our dirt? It lives, excretes, and is deep,
to boot. Who understands zero gee fission? we are ice on a fireball.
We are the snowball surrounding hell, walking around on a little
insulating frozen rock floating on a lake of magma.

Cheap renewable power? Geothermal, solar steam, wind, tidal.

Real expense? Transmission, overpopulation?

Private planes to eliminate highway congestion? The highway, be it
asphalt or air, is no more than an extension of the parking lot. Are
we gonna have sky garages 20 floors tall and elevator parking for
excess idle Mohler sky machinery, or are we gonna take air taxis? How
many pedestrians squashed by crashing cabs before we try dirigible
busses, or living with parachutes in our office?

None of the sky routes are economical.
A quick check will show some high rises in NY do have parachutes for
emergencies although I'd not think they'd be practical.


I see city buildings before commuter conveniences. Land is limited. I
see deep wells for Icelandic power, even air conditioning. I see tube
trains surrounding volcanic artifacts linking ring of fire hot spots.
I count the calories produced by cities in their warm spots with their
reflective sky scrapers and steam pipes warmed by moving lightweight
reflectors.

I see wind power to produce compressed air, liquid nitrogen and

Liquid nitrogen is very inefficient as it takes a lot of energy to
produce and the only energy you get out is the expansion from
evaporation and expansion.

ultimately, hydrogen to be burned on site to put power into the grid
when needed.

Hydrogen too is expensive to produce on a large scale and remain a
viable economic alternative to gas, expensive to store and expensive
to transport although not nearly as dangerous as most think. It also
takes more energy to produce the gas than you can get back out of it.
Liquefying it takes even more. However Hydrogen contains far more
energy than liquid Nitrogen as you can use Hydrogen in combustion and
produce a fair amount of clean energy.


Can liquid nitrogen be used to operate a Stirling cycle engine or
turbine warmed by ambient air? What is it's energy density next to
gasoline or hydrogen? What about it's seasonal efficiency?

Compared to combustible fuels it's very poor although I don't have the
numbers right at my fingertips. Gasoline is considerably higher than
Hydrogen due to all the carbon.


Our oil problems are really political marketing.

Only partially. Unstable sources, unfriendly sources, poorly
accessible sources, long and expensive transportation routes, all lead
to price sensitivity. It along with coal is also a big source of
pollution.

Roger (K8RI)

Terry K

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:48:16 -0700, "Tom S."
wrote:


"Terry K" wrote in message
roups.com...

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media...pa20071880.pdf
suggests the sun has no effect on climate.

I guess they never heard of "seasons".

This paper refutes the above paper:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...e_lockwood.pdf

And this paper too appears to have some flaws. It ignores the Pan
evaporation rate which has shown the amount of energy from the sun
reaching the earth's surface has been going down for decades.

Also it denies the major effect of CO2 while current scientists have
overwhelmingly accepted CO2 as the prime driver.

Still in the end the ONLY source for earth's energy we see does come
from the sun with the exception of a small amount of leakage from the
earth's core.

Both papers have some serious conflicts with today's accepted
theories.

Roger (K8RI)