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GNS430 on the Airway
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GNS430 on the Airway
Peter Clark wrote:
Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and have said they aren't planning on adding it Wow, that really blows my mind. They've got it in the 480 (via the Apollo/UPSAT acquisition), and it's one of the best features of that box. It's staggering that they left it out of the G1000. Garmin may thing airways are obsolete, but nobody's told ATC about that yet, at least not around where I fly. |
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GNS430 on the Airway
Roy Smith wrote:
Peter Clark wrote: Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and have said they aren't planning on adding it Wow, that really blows my mind. They've got it in the 480 (via the Apollo/UPSAT acquisition), and it's one of the best features of that box. It's staggering that they left it out of the G1000. Garmin may thing airways are obsolete, but nobody's told ATC about that yet, at least not around where I fly. The guy who runs the 400/500/1000 program has always been hard-over against an airway database. |
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GNS430 on the Airway
in these boxes, especially when the
design is done from the ground up and could include that functionality with apparently not much additional work. ' The nav function of the G1000 is certainly the ground up though. Its 100% a GNS 430. If you look on the right side of the panel there is a group of buttons that control the nav functions. These buttons are the same as the buttons on the bottom of the 430 (OBS, Proc, etc). In fact, the only difference I can find between the G1000 and the GNS 430 is that when you do a course reversal on approach, you must 'unsuspend' the 430 to begin the inbound leg, where the G1000 automatically does this. -Robert |
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GNS430 on the Airway
But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab
VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or intersection on the route. If you are off airway and choose to fly TO the airway, simply go to the FPL screen, select teh NEXT fix on the plan and activate the leg. Your CDI will be in relation to that leg, not a direct line to the fix. Tho i do wish you could simply put AIRPORTA D- abcVOR-V123-cabVORD D- AIRPORTB. But it only saves a few entries on most flights. And in reality I've NEVER gotten what i was cleared for IFR wise when i filed /G.... I MIGHT get to the second fix, then its "Proceed Direct AIRPORTB" or something similar that cuts off about 20 minutes of flying time. "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com... That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert |
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GNS430 on the Airway
But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab
VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or intersection on the route. That struggle is reasonable as you sit at the runup writing down your clearance. However, when you are in flight, in very busy airspace, and have controllers that enjoy updating routing airway assignments by the dozen things start to break down. Just the fact that you are suggesting to grab your enroute chart to figure out the waypoints shows how old this technology feels. My other problem with the solution you and others have pointed out is that it has the potential to be very dangerous. Many airways have multiple turns, some slight when flying in mountain areas. Having to figure out all the bends on the enroute chart and then program each turn into the GPS is as modern as dead rec. My 1990's King handheld did better than that, as does the $80 GPS that plugs into my PDA and does airway routing. -Robert |
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GNS430 on the Airway
So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do the error allowances play into this? Marco "nooneimportant" wrote in message news:gPgGf.57025$V.55301@fed1read04... But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or intersection on the route. If you are off airway and choose to fly TO the airway, simply go to the FPL screen, select teh NEXT fix on the plan and activate the leg. Your CDI will be in relation to that leg, not a direct line to the fix. Tho i do wish you could simply put AIRPORTA D- abcVOR-V123-cabVORD D- AIRPORTB. But it only saves a few entries on most flights. And in reality I've NEVER gotten what i was cleared for IFR wise when i filed /G.... I MIGHT get to the second fix, then its "Proceed Direct AIRPORTB" or something similar that cuts off about 20 minutes of flying time. "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com... That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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GNS430 on the Airway
So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR? If you miss entering one of the bends in the airway it could be 20 or 30 miles off. The point is that you are now back to the 1970's, grabbing your enroute chart and trying to figure out all the airway bends when you could have a 1990's handheld GPS (King Skymap IIIC) and it would do it all for you. -Robert |
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GNS430 on the Airway
"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:
So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do the error allowances play into this? Since unaugmented GPS (not using WAAS) is accurate to 10 meters or so (plus/minus) and an airway is plus/minus four MILES (or is is two?) the navigation source (GPS) is not a major error source. Ron Lee |
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GNS430 on the Airway
On 02/09/06 08:09, Ron Lee wrote:
"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote: So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do the error allowances play into this? Since unaugmented GPS (not using WAAS) is accurate to 10 meters or so (plus/minus) and an airway is plus/minus four MILES (or is is two?) the navigation source (GPS) is not a major error source. An airway is 8 miles wide (4 miles on either side of the centerline). One of the problems is that GPS accounts for magnetic variations differently than the VORs do. Also I don't think GPS accounts for the fact that the VOR radial are not exactly aligned with magnetic north (what is this called? variance? I can't remember - it's documented in the A/FD). GPS position errors would be on top of all this. Ron Lee -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
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