US Air Force survival gun?

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...
Rules for hiking in bear country:

1. ALWAYS bring a friend.
2. ALWAYS carry a .22LR pistol. NOTE: don't tell friend you have a gun.
3. When charged by a bear, shoot friend in leg.
4. RUN. You can't outrun a bear, but you can outrun your friend.

I like

--
Paul J. Adam

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

(Harry Andreas) wrote in
:



Titanium would be hideously expensive for a survival weapon,
especially as applied to moving parts in a gun.
And the light weight would create eye-tearing recoil.
Any bear defense load would generate too much recoil.

Smith & Wesson makes a titanium/scandium .357 Magnum revolver,and the
recoil I'm told is hard,but still useable.
They may also make a .44Mag model,I'm not sure.

I'm familiar with the S&W Titanium.

He was talking about a shotgun though, and a 12 Ga slug load
generates about 10X the specific impulse of a .357 load.
Ouch.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:59 -0700, Mary Shafer wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:38:41 -0400, Bob McKellar
wrote:


I took a Navy correspondence course on "Arctic Operations". The advice for shooting
a polar bear was to aim for the shoulder, since their skulls are too thick to be
easily penetrated.

BOAC and the successor portion of BA used to carry a long gun* in the
survival pack, until about ten years ago. This was for shooting polar
bears after ditching in the Far North. Flight attendants were taught
never to let anyone eat the liver, as it has so much vitamin A it's
toxic to humans.

*I can't remember if it was a rifle or a carbine.

It sorta reminded me of some of our regular posters around here.

"Some"? Only "some"? Surely you jest.

On another note, I'm getting tired of the vitriolic political
disputatiousness on Usenet already and it's a long time to November.
Particularly the nasty attack stuff. It's unoriginal, it's tedious,
and it's irritating. It also says more about the attacker than the
attacked. Whatever happened to the concept of reasonable people
avoiding unreasonable topics in inappropriate places? Has anyone ever
changed their mind because of such an attack (well, except about the
manners and morals of the attacker)?

Mary

I agree completely, and I will no longer participate in any thread that gets
into the political area.

Sorry about the recent past, I just got a little carried away!!

Al Minyard

In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

If it was a 7mm, it was probably a 7mm Remington Magnum round. And those
fellers do get big, don't they? When I went to Alaska, my first stop was to
visit a buddy stationed at Wainright flying UH-1V medevac helos. We talked
before I flew up there and I told him I was also going to be heading down to
the southern area to do some solo fishing. He vetoed my plan to bring my .45
along as my bear-persuader; I'll never forget his words: "Look, you need to
bring a *real* gun; I have seen grizzlies out here so big that I won't even
fly my Huey down near them..." So I took the 12 ga--and saw zero bears.
(But, to give you the Paul Harvey "rest of the story", the following year a
lady was killed hiking along a creek I had fished just outside Anchorage, so
taking a gun was not an unwise decision).

Pepper spray and .357's are OK for the local mountains here.
If camping where there are for sure grizzlies, then it's hello Mr. 12 Ga.
1 round of #4 buck in the chamber (to get his attention, maybe scare him off)
followed by 5 rounds of Foster type slugs. None of that sabot stuff.
At short range, the full weight foster or brenneke slugs work better.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

If it was a 7mm, it was probably a 7mm Remington Magnum round. And those
fellers do get big, don't they? When I went to Alaska, my first stop was
to
visit a buddy stationed at Wainright flying UH-1V medevac helos. We
talked
before I flew up there and I told him I was also going to be heading
down to
the southern area to do some solo fishing. He vetoed my plan to bring my
..45
along as my bear-persuader; I'll never forget his words: "Look, you need
to
bring a *real* gun; I have seen grizzlies out here so big that I won't
even
fly my Huey down near them..." So I took the 12 ga--and saw zero bears.
(But, to give you the Paul Harvey "rest of the story", the following
year a
lady was killed hiking along a creek I had fished just outside
Anchorage, so
taking a gun was not an unwise decision).

Pepper spray and .357's are OK for the local mountains here.
If camping where there are for sure grizzlies, then it's hello Mr. 12 Ga.
1 round of #4 buck in the chamber (to get his attention, maybe scare him
off)
followed by 5 rounds of Foster type slugs. None of that sabot stuff.
At short range, the full weight foster or brenneke slugs work better.

I just carried a full load of slugs--figured he'd be big enough that I
couldn't miss, so no need for buckshot, and the only running shot I was
worried about was him coming dead *at* me. Sold the gun after I got back
home, being as I had no need for a slug-barreled gun around here (don't do
any deer hunting anymore).

Brooks


--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On 21 Apr 2004 22:47:01 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:11:54 -0400, "Bruce W.1" wrote:

The US Air Force used to put a gun in their pilot survival packs, the
M-6 Scout. See: http://www.milesfortis.com/church/akc13.htm

Does anyone know what the Air Force uses today?

I'd really like to know because I'm looking for a survival gun to take
into the woods while backpacking. It must be as light in weight as
possible.

Thanks for your help.

Kel-Tech makes a nice 9mm or 40S&W (your choice) folding carbine.
I would guess that it weights about three pounds (unloaded).

Al Minyard

What pieces of crap. In WW2 Luftwaffe air crews had the incredible
Sauer Drilling that featured two shotgun barrels and a .375 mag rifle
combined. Add to that the 27mm Leuchtpistole that also fired grenades,
flares, sounding rounds, and Luftminen. Now that's firepower and
utility!
The US by comparison postwar had that ugly, ****ty M-6 scrap metal
survival gun and now they carry either compact 9s/40s/45s/or various
M-16 compact rifles depending on the crews and mission.
You would think they would do better than that.

Rob

The Sauer drilling had a 9.3X74R rifle barrel, not a .357 Magnum. It also
weighed about 15 pounds and could not be carried in aircraft other
than bombers. It was wooden stocked, commercially built, desperation
weapon issued to bomber crews on the Eastern front.

Was it a nice drilling, sure. Was it an effective survival weapon?
Not by any stretch of the imagination. It was way too heavy, would
not fit in a survival kit, used ammunition unique in the German military,
etc. No one in their right mind would consider it any sort of military
weapon, much less a "survival" gun. Of course Goering was not in
his right mind :-)

Al Minyard

One of my secondary duties was oversight of our Global Survival Kits
carried in our F102s. Since we sometimes crossed the northern US
border (even in winter - brrrr!) the contents had to meet some
stringent requirements. One of the pilots said all he needed was a
dime for a phone call. (Long time back!) I laughed and replied 'And if
you break a leg on landing in your chute at night?' Lots of empty
territory up there in the Northern spaces. We had the M6 - ISTR along
with a 50-round pack of 22 Hornet and a dozen 410 shells. The M6
wasn't as fancy as the LW gun but a) it worked well and b) the USAF
needed a LOT of them, roughly one per crew position, at a guess around
10,000. And it didn't weigh a dozen pounds as most drillings did (do).
Walt BJ

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(SteveM8597) wrote:

I have carried a firearm a time or two while backpacking in grizzly
country but
not in state and national parks where they are illegal. I hear the
situation
in some of the CA parks is pretty bad, though. Not what I would
consider a
survival situation, just common sense.

Best bet for bear and cougar defense is actually pepper spray, although
I've
also carried a .357, especially when hiking with kids.

I go with the 45 apc, as the only real danger when camping is human. Unless
you are someone unfamiliar with animals. I really hate to see someone
injure a bear, or cougar. I had a fat badger on my front porch looking for
cat food and I paased on terrorizing the little stinker.

From: "Ragnar"


Rules for hiking in bear country:

1. ALWAYS bring a friend.
2. ALWAYS carry a .22LR pistol. NOTE: don't tell friend you have a gun.
3. When charged by a bear, shoot friend in leg.
4. RUN. You can't outrun a bear, but you can outrun your friend.

The only drawback is next time you go camping You will have a harder time
taking a friend. I suggest taking a lawyer, draft dodger or child molester.No
jury would convict you.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

From: (robert arndt)

snip

What pieces of crap. In WW2 Luftwaffe air crews had the incredible
Sauer Drilling that featured two shotgun barrels and a .375 mag rifle
combined. Add to that the 27mm Leuchtpistole that also fired grenades,
flares, sounding rounds, and Luftminen. Now that's firepower and
utility!


Rob

Let's see, you guys didn't issue 357 magnums during the war, better check again
on the pistol caliber. The piece in question was heavy and bulky and rarely
carried for those reasons.

Flare pistols launching grenades is a non starter even for you.

With all the crowing you have done in the NG about your superior weapons and SS
super brains you still LOST that war. Get over it.


The US by comparison postwar had that ugly, ****ty M-6 scrap metal
survival gun and now they carry either compact 9s/40s/45s/or various
M-16 compact rifles depending on the crews and mission.
You would think they would do better than that.

Rob

They may be ugly but they work, they are light and small enough to carry and
ARE carried. Given the choice of a heavy, bulky "super weapon" left behind or
one of those "ugly weapons" in my kit guess which one is more effective when
needed?

Tell you what, put on a flightsuit. How many pockets do you have? How much can
you carry? Now put on your survival vest and address the same questions. OK,
part of your bailout kit has all kinds of wonderful things, how much can you
put in the aforementioned pockets? Unless the kit bag makes a comfortable back
pack you will get rid of it if you have to go cross country. A basic rule of
thumb is it's better to wear what you need than carry it. You survival vest has
a holster for a pistol. How long will you carry that wonder weapon you
described?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired