aerobatic power to weight ratio

Hi,
I've noticed in the videos at www.fulldeflection.com that all the top
aerobatic aicraft, such as the Sukhoi SU-31, Egde 540, Extra 300,
etc., can almost hover.

It seems that within a few years they will be able to climb on power
alone.

Aerobatics will look completely different once that occurs. Can you
imagine Svetlana Kapanina hovering her Sukhoi for a couple of minutes
at 300', then reversing down to an even lower altitude. I can imagine
Peter Besenyei performing the perfect square shaped hover in his Extra
540.

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?

Superdoof.

Superdoof wrote in news:649fda93-c79b-45fc-9a41-
:

Hi,
I've noticed in the videos at www.fulldeflection.com that all the top
aerobatic aicraft, such as the Sukhoi SU-31, Egde 540, Extra 300,
etc., can almost hover.

It seems that within a few years they will be able to climb on power
alone.

Aerobatics will look completely different once that occurs. Can you
imagine Svetlana Kapanina hovering her Sukhoi for a couple of minutes
at 300', then reversing down to an even lower altitude. I can imagine
Peter Besenyei performing the perfect square shaped hover in his Extra
540.

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?

Superdoof.


A massive increase in power for a given engine weight with a recip is
unlikely. Significantly lighter structures may be on the cards, OTOH..


Bertie

"Superdoof" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've noticed in the videos at www.fulldeflection.com that all the top
aerobatic aicraft, such as the Sukhoi SU-31, Egde 540, Extra 300,
etc., can almost hover.

It seems that within a few years they will be able to climb on power
alone.

Aerobatics will look completely different once that occurs. Can you
imagine Svetlana Kapanina hovering her Sukhoi for a couple of minutes
at 300', then reversing down to an even lower altitude. I can imagine
Peter Besenyei performing the perfect square shaped hover in his Extra
540.

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?

Superdoof.

You can always gear the engine to swing a bigger prop slower. Of course at
some point the landing gear geometry and torque drive you to put a tail
rotor on the thing and call it a helicopter...

"Superdoof" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've noticed in the videos at www.fulldeflection.com that all the top
aerobatic aicraft, such as the Sukhoi SU-31, Egde 540, Extra 300,
etc., can almost hover.

It seems that within a few years they will be able to climb on power
alone.

Aerobatics will look completely different once that occurs. Can you
imagine Svetlana Kapanina hovering her Sukhoi for a couple of minutes
at 300', then reversing down to an even lower altitude. I can imagine
Peter Besenyei performing the perfect square shaped hover in his Extra
540.

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?


A. Thrust /weight 1.0 is possible Add Nitrous or something like that. Of
course, you will be replacing engines on a regular basis

B. Control would be a problem. Hanging from the prop results in torque
rolls. Airplanes don't have tail rotors or cyclic control over the
propeller.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

B. Control would be a problem. Hanging from the prop results in torque
rolls. Airplanes don't have tail rotors or cyclic control over the
propeller.


A VERY effective demonstration of this can be done in a P51. You start
from slow flight with the prop all the way up and slowly begin
increasing angle of attack and feeding in more MP as needed to hold
altitude. Sort of like any entry into a slow flight back side scenario.
As you do this you will need more and more right aileron. You will reach
a point where aileron can't hold it any longer and the airplane will
torque roll on you.
It's a VERY effective technique for demonstrating how NOT to get in high
angle of attack/slow airspeed/high power situations :-))
--
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

B. Control would be a problem. Hanging from the prop results in torque
rolls. Airplanes don't have tail rotors or cyclic control over the
propeller.


A VERY effective demonstration of this can be done in a P51. You start
from slow flight with the prop all the way up and slowly begin increasing
angle of attack and feeding in more MP as needed to hold altitude. Sort
of like any entry into a slow flight back side scenario.
As you do this you will need more and more right aileron. You will reach
a point where aileron can't hold it any longer and the airplane will
torque roll on you.
It's a VERY effective technique for demonstrating how NOT to get in high
angle of attack/slow airspeed/high power situations :-))
--
Dudley Henriques

I'll have to take your word on that...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Superdoof" wrote

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?

Sean tucker has already perfected the hover, in his Super Pitts.
--
Jim in NC

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk @See My Sig.com wrote

B. Control would be a problem. Hanging from the prop results in torque
rolls. Airplanes don't have tail rotors or cyclic control over the
propeller.

Sean Tucker overcomes the torque with 4 great big ailerons on a biplane,
with the prop wash giving enough deflection to keep him pretty straight.
--
Jim in NC

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92639009239481

Wayne Handley had his Turbo Raven that crashed in 99. It could hover and
then climb.

Adam

--
Adam Cope
www.dcaerobatics.com
703-623-9445
"Superdoof" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've noticed in the videos at www.fulldeflection.com that all the top
aerobatic aicraft, such as the Sukhoi SU-31, Egde 540, Extra 300,
etc., can almost hover.

It seems that within a few years they will be able to climb on power
alone.

Aerobatics will look completely different once that occurs. Can you
imagine Svetlana Kapanina hovering her Sukhoi for a couple of minutes
at 300', then reversing down to an even lower altitude. I can imagine
Peter Besenyei performing the perfect square shaped hover in his Extra
540.

Is this technically feasible, or have the aircraft already reached a
developmental limit ?

Superdoof.

On Aug 5, 11:47*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
B. Control would be a problem. Hanging from the prop results in torque
rolls. Airplanes don't have tail rotors or cyclic control over the
propeller.

A VERY effective demonstration of this can be done in a P51. You start
from slow flight with the prop all the way up and slowly begin
increasing angle of attack and feeding in more MP as needed to hold
altitude. Sort of like any entry into a slow flight back side scenario.
As you do this you will need more and more right aileron. You will reach
a point where aileron can't hold it any longer and the airplane will
torque roll on you.
It's a VERY effective technique for demonstrating how NOT to get in high
angle of attack/slow airspeed/high power situations :-))
--

I understand the reasoning/description here, but how/why do model
planes do it so well?

Cheers