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when to run up and check the prop



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 7th 05, 02:42 AM
Matt Barrow
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"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...

Friendly Skies wrote:
snip
Their
rationale is that doing it four or five times a day is unnecessarily

hard on
the engine and when its been flown in the last few hours there's no

need to
cycle the prop more.


I don't see why a runup or a short prop cycle should be unnecessarily
hard on the engine. If they're stopping that many times a day, they'll
get the procedure down to a few seconds.

In the backcountry, where there is often no place to runup without
sucking rocks into the prop, we often do the mag check early in the
takeoff roll. It's an extra step during a critical phase, but I
always feel more comfortable rolling towards the trees and rocks at the
end of the runway when I know all of the plugs are firing on time.


Not exactly a match, but http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html
offers some good, helpful basics that might answer some peripheral
questions.



  #12  
Old May 7th 05, 06:14 AM
BTIZ
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same thing happens on floats and a water take off..

"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...

Friendly Skies wrote:
snip
Their
rationale is that doing it four or five times a day is unnecessarily

hard on
the engine and when its been flown in the last few hours there's no

need to
cycle the prop more.


I don't see why a runup or a short prop cycle should be unnecessarily
hard on the engine. If they're stopping that many times a day, they'll
get the procedure down to a few seconds.

In the backcountry, where there is often no place to runup without
sucking rocks into the prop, we often do the mag check early in the
takeoff roll. It's an extra step during a critical phase, but I
always feel more comfortable rolling towards the trees and rocks at the
end of the runway when I know all of the plugs are firing on time.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)



  #13  
Old May 7th 05, 06:45 AM
Peter Duniho
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"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:39Yee.11385$fI.8996@fed1read05...
same thing happens on floats and a water take off..


Hmmm...I don't do my runup during the takeoff, even on the water. It's
true, I have no brakes and so the runup involves getting the airplane
moving. But once the runup is completed, I reposition myself for takeoff.

I can see that there are situations when doing the runup during the takeoff
would be useful and beneficial, but a water takeoff in a seaplane doesn't
seem to me to be one of them. Why complicate the takeoff unnecessarily?
(In John's example, the complication is necessary, but not so for a water
takeoff)

Pete


  #14  
Old May 7th 05, 07:26 AM
tony roberts
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Are there any good arguments out there based in science and fact and not old
wives tales to support only doing a run up and prop check on the first
flight of the day ? I'm talking about a situation where you're flying
multiple flights a day and the engine never completely cools off.


Are there any good arguments out there based in science and fact and not old
wives tales to support only doing a run up and prop check on the first
flight of the day ?


Well I never was one for science - more toward the arts personally so I
can't base anything on science for you.

What I can tell you is that last year our club was flying young eagles
and they decided that to save time we would only runup for the first
flight. I refused and actually took a lot of criticism for my refusal.

2nd flight - I'm the only one to runup - no left mag.
Plane parked - later the mag was removed and was found to be totally
dead as it had managed to internally disintegrate itself.

Should I have done the runup? Everyone else said no.
I would have been carrying 9 year olds over lakes and mountains.

2 years ago - 3rd runup of the day - another no mag day - parked.

So my unscientific opinion is that I don't fly unless I pass a full and
thorough runup, and if that p*sses somebody off - that's ok.
Because all of my flying is over lakes and mountains - and I don't fly
floats! So I check - and check again. If the checks don't meet my
standards I stay on the ground.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE
  #15  
Old May 7th 05, 01:07 PM
Joe Johnson
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"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
I'd only run up and check the prop when the engine's not running. You can
get hurt otherwise :-)

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

C'mon, Bob...we're trying to be serious here...


  #16  
Old May 7th 05, 01:53 PM
Blueskies
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"Tony" wrote in message oups.com...
Ok, brother flyers, cards on the table here. I always do a run-up
before taking the active (my Mooney only sees pavement, so gravel
damage isn't a serious consideration) as do I think most of you. I'm a
M20J jock. I have, in some 3000 hours, returned to base after taxing
out only about 4 times. Once, in a normally inducted Mooney Ranger the
carb heat wire broke during that test (quite a surprise when you pull
out a foot of wire!), a couple of time because a radio wasn't working,
once because a bank of spark plugs weren't firing. Never had to come
back because the prop didn't cycle correctly.

I am NOT saying don't cycle the prop! I am wondering what failure modes
you guys have experienced during run up.

I've had in flight mag bank failures, vacuum pump failures, alternator,
radio, and common sense failures too. All but the last lead to a
landing at the nearest suitable airport (ever notice how often a
failure is in solid IFR?). The common sense failure modes did not
result in landing at the nearest airport or turning around, but they
should have.

OK, I've shown you mine. Let's see yours.


The reason for cycling the prop is to pump the cold oil out and move in the warmed oil. If the oil stayed warm from the
previous flight then there is no valid reason to cycle it again.

The MAG check is valid before every takeoff following a restart. Any number of things could have happened during the
last flight that would be revealed with this simple check....


  #17  
Old May 7th 05, 03:35 PM
nrp
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So if a warm prop governor doesn't work, what can happen? It will
either control or it won't. The airplane should fly if it turns up
either way. Why do multiple still-warm runnups unless you are just
trying to make the neighbors mad? or blow crap at everyone else's
airplane at the pad? or maybe just to sweep the pad?

On a second flight I just look for a dead mag on the taxi out, assuming
no other concerns. I do check car heat control feel-only if it is
dry, but fully check function if there is reason to suspect carb icing.

One I've never hear others say - I check the belly for oil before every
flight.

  #18  
Old May 7th 05, 04:15 PM
Peter R.
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Blueskies wrote:

The MAG check is valid before every takeoff following a restart. Any number
of things could have happened during the
last flight that would be revealed with this simple check....


Like taxiing to the runway without properly leaning beforehand.

I always do a run-up and prop cycle as part of every pre-takeoff checklist.


--
Peter


















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  #19  
Old May 7th 05, 04:20 PM
Peter R.
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tony roberts wrote:

So my unscientific opinion is that I don't fly unless I pass a
full and thorough runup, and if that p*sses somebody off -
that's ok.


Hopefully your two past experiences were enough to silence the nay-sayers
of your club and change their mind (for their own good and the good of
their passengers). Good for you in sticking to your training and instinct,
despite what appeared to be overwhelming peer pressure.



--
Peter


















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  #20  
Old May 7th 05, 06:18 PM
Peter Duniho
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"Blueskies" wrote in message
m...
The reason for cycling the prop is to pump the cold oil out and move in
the warmed oil.


That's the reason for cycling the prop several times (I usually do it three
during a "cold" run-up). Cycling it at least once is for verifying proper
operation, and is a valid reason no matter how many times you've done it
before (by the same logic you use to argue for doing a magneto check every
time).

Pete


 




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