How to deal with a difficult DE?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
I have seen DEs do this with applicants that they thought were marginal.
They ask more questions to confirm their opinion one way or another. The
applicant may flunk on some small item, but what the DE is really saying is
that he wants the applicant to go back and study harder. He tells the
applicant this, but the applicant does not necessarily mention that when she
tells other people how her check ride went.

Yes. That's why its critical that we have a good relationship with the
DE. The DE should take the time to talk to the CFI after the checkride
and debrief us. Whether the student passes or fails, its good to know
what the DE's opinion was. It also allows you to warn students of
items that a particular DE is focused on.

-Robert

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
I have seen DEs do this with applicants that they thought were marginal.
They ask more questions to confirm their opinion one way or another. The
applicant may flunk on some small item, but what the DE is really saying is
that he wants the applicant to go back and study harder. He tells the
applicant this, but the applicant does not necessarily mention that when she
tells other people how her check ride went.

Yes. That's why its critical that we have a good relationship with the
DE. The DE should take the time to talk to the CFI after the checkride
and debrief us. Whether the student passes or fails, its good to know
what the DE's opinion was. It also allows you to warn students of
items that a particular DE is focused on.

-Robert

First of all I want to thank everyone for their opinion and advise.
It's a real pleasure to have a forum like this to get honest opinions.

Second, the situation has since been resolved to everyone's
satisfaction..

My student continued the test the next day after I had a chance to
lightly question the DE. At first, I really didn't want to address
the issue about how dissatisfied the student was with the DE's
personality. However after chit chatting with the DE for a few I
‘discovered' that the DE was on his 3rd day of all day check rides and
was getting tired. Plus, it seems there was some miscommunication
between the student and DE during the exam that might have lead to a
misunderstanding and stress being placed on the student. However, on
the final day of the check ride (3 days in all, weather was a factor),
my student reported that the DE seems to be in a much better mood and
was actually pleasant to fly with. In the end, the student ended up
passing.

What I've learned? In the future I'm going to establish a better
relationship between myself the available DE's in my area. I take the
blame for not devoting more attention to this. With that said, I still
have some reservations about using this DE again. I understand that
some ‘stress' is normal, however if the DE is taking it several steps
further (due to his own fatigue or other factors), then I see that as
a problem.

One other factor I can now discuss is the DE's method of
distracting/testing (?) the student. Seems even if the student is
giving the DE a correct answer to a questions, the DE will look
disappointed and shake their head in a disapproving manner. I've
personally never heard of this tactic, but I think it's a poor method
to use during an exam.

So, thanks again for any comments.

Fly safe,

True, but we had a really bad DE who used to give 8 hour orals to
PP-ASELs, and flunked them on silly stuff like this too. If he needs 8
hours to determine whether somebody posesses the level of knowledge
for a PP-ASEL, then he's a pretty shaky examiner. If he needs more
than a couple of hours to determine that (given the student already
has passed the knowledge test), then I'm inclined to believe the
problem is the DE, and not the student. BTW, This DE didn't stay a DE.
He got the message when every CFI in the region refused to send him
anyone. He worked out of the same airport as a popular (more
reasonable) DE. The reasonable guy would have literally dozens of
exams per week, the shaky guy none.

Cap


"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"OtisWinslow" wrote in message
news
There was one here that spent almost 8 hours with a PPL
applicant and then flunked her on some little thing. Any
CFI who would send a student to a DE like that has
to be nuts.


I have seen DEs do this with applicants that they thought were marginal.
They ask more questions to confirm their opinion one way or another. The
applicant may flunk on some small item, but what the DE is really saying is
that he wants the applicant to go back and study harder. He tells the
applicant this, but the applicant does not necessarily mention that when she
tells other people how her check ride went.

On 17 Aug 2004 10:45:02 -0700, (Mark) wrote:

However, on
the final day of the check ride

Good grief!

Perhaps I lucked out. I took my check ride on a very cold January day
in New Hampshire (we didn't then have the 20-degree F restriction) in
a very weary J-3 Cub. The examiner spent about twenty minutes quizzing
me on the ground, then climbed into the front seat and asked me to
turn west (right) at 600 feet. I confirmed: "Turning west at 1,000
feet," and did so, figuring that he was trying to catch me turning
into potentially someone on base. But no; he just wanted to stay close
to the airport, which we did for the next twenty minutes, then landed.
He was *very* cold! I of course had learned to wear fleece-lined jeans
and long underwear.

In any event, it was hailed locally as the shortest checkout ever.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

Wasn't your checkride for Rec certificate, not private?

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
On 17 Aug 2004 10:45:02 -0700, (Mark) wrote:

However, on
the final day of the check ride

Good grief!

Perhaps I lucked out. I took my check ride on a very cold January day
in New Hampshire (we didn't then have the 20-degree F restriction) in
a very weary J-3 Cub. The examiner spent about twenty minutes quizzing
me on the ground, then climbed into the front seat and asked me to
turn west (right) at 600 feet. I confirmed: "Turning west at 1,000
feet," and did so, figuring that he was trying to catch me turning
into potentially someone on base. But no; he just wanted to stay close
to the airport, which we did for the next twenty minutes, then landed.
He was *very* cold! I of course had learned to wear fleece-lined jeans
and long underwear.

In any event, it was hailed locally as the shortest checkout ever.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com