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#21
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
On Sunday, 27 November 2016 11:05:20 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
So... Your glider has less instruments and current draw than the one mentioned above in this thread. I also know several pilots who do not have batteries in their glider at all, and only use a handheld radio. Point being the new LiFePo4 have not rendered solar panels obsolete. I do like the espresso maker idea though! On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 12:03:48 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote: Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit. I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding. My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves. But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV.. |
#22
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:14:51 -0800, Casey wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:27:00 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote: On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:39:58 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote: Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries. Besides effectively increasing battery capacity, they are very useful for recharging the batteries between flights. We are continuing to add electronic devices (transponders, flarm, foot warmers, etc.) while on-board battery capacity is stagnant. In some gliders, like the DG80x, battery capacity is already at a critical level (and lithiums are not an option). If I ordered a new glider I would definitely go with the solar option (assuming it is available with Strobls closing). Tom Yes, maybe more electronics are added, but aren't electronics more efficient now and draw less? I don't know, but what is the power consumption of 70-80's electronics compared to today? But.... And wiring a new glider for a solar panel and especially a motorized glider is one thing, but adding to a older glider has to be almost impossible or at least for anyone that I could find locally or readily. I do not believe in redoing an older glider to modern specs of adding the flarm, and glass displays, and twin batteries, and solar panels, and ADS-B, and ballistic chutes....bla, bla, bla......My point is there is only so much that can be added or changed that effects weight and balance, performance, and being cost prohibitive....Am I correct in saying that? The old saying KISS has to come into play at some point. Instead of figuring out how to run wiring for a solar panel, I would settle for easy replacement of TE tubing in the boom. And I will just keep charging my Lion battery every 2- 3 or so flights. I have an early Libelle that I've equipped with a selection of electronic toys for its panel: - One battery drives 2 x electric vario (SDI C4, B40), FLARM, PDA running LK8000. This setup uses 483 mA, with the majority used by the PDA, thought it was probably charging its internal battery when I made the measurement. - Second battery runs the T&B plus a ATR-500 radio. These use 170 ma with both running. Transmitting adds 110 mA on transmit and the T&B has a momentary 1100 mA spike when it spins up. The radio is now a KRT2. Both batteries are 12v 7.2Ah SLA and both are connected to an EW Microrecorder (logger) via diodes, so the higher voltage battery drives it. Both are mounted in the original battery box, though with a new, raised lid to clear the bigger battery bulk and to act as a mount for the EW Microrecorder. The W&B is fine. Everything except the T&B is running throughout a typical flight. In fact I power everything up except the T&B just before towing out and then leave it all on until just before tiedown or derig. I've never got near flattening the batteries with this approach. I've measured the power consumption of everything except the EW logger. and this indicates that I should get something approaching 14 hours operation from fully charged batteries in good condition. On top of that the B.40 has a 9v backup battery that should run it for 12 hours and the PDA (a Medion S3747) claims 6-8 hours operation off a fully charged 800 mAh battery. So, if you're worried about your power consumption in flight, a good one- off winter project would be to measure the power your rig uses with all its normal equipment running. If you also check your batteries by measuring their capacity annually, you'll know when to replace them and if they'll handle the longest flight you're likely to make. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#23
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
One would think it would be doable using a diode isolator (Schottky diode for low forward loss) - insert diode ahead of the avionics buss on current wiring set up. Then simply wire the new aux battery to the buss side of the diode. No back feed from the AUX to the system. Thanks, Bumper, may tackle that this winter. Problem so far is I have not been able to identify what you would think of as a traditional power buss.. Several heavy wires come off the main switch, which is over by the side wall of the cockpit. Then large wires disappear deep under the instruments and under the panel. There is just a large mess of wires that come from deep under the panel. I think I will have to pull all the instruments and radio to be able to really get into the power buss. I have been able to identify the negative buss. Thanks Kevin 92 |
#24
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 4:23:09 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 27 November 2016 11:05:20 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: So... Your glider has less instruments and current draw than the one mentioned above in this thread. I also know several pilots who do not have batteries in their glider at all, and only use a handheld radio. Point being the new LiFePo4 have not rendered solar panels obsolete. I do like the espresso maker idea though! On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 12:03:48 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote: Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit. I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding. My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves. But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV. I don't think you have a full panel. I could call it a small panel. I have 20 AH battery dedicated to instruments plus 4 solar panels and all of that power will not last for an 8 hour flight to drive all I have in the cockpit.. The glider and instruments are year 2016. |
#25
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
Again So.... With no disrespect intended, PDA's have been obsolete since 2008, and they were not a glider instrument but a kludged fix until larger screens were economically available for purpose designed soaring instruments.. Your glider has a full panel for your needs, but is far from full by modern standards, does not have transponder, does not have AHRS for those day when the foehn gap closes, and only has one e-vario, no instantaneous wind, no strobe built into fin for anti-collision... . The glider, new in 2016, I mentioned that is well equipped was ordered with solar panels and LiFePo4 batteries and it needs the solar panels to help top up the batteries for those 8-10 hour xc flights out west. Argo, LiFePo4 batteries have not made solar panels on gliders obsolete, the original comment we have been debating.
Apollo 11 made it to the moon with less computing power than we carry in our smart phones too, but more modern craft has orders of magnitude more computing power. The march of time remains ever constant, clocks that bind will be left to rust. Still thinking about your idea for fresh espresso in the cockpit. Jon On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 1:23:09 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote: My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves. But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV. |
#26
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
Wow, what do you have in panel then? I'm all ears. My panel has pretty much same stuff you would find in most competition gliders, sans transponder. This comment is based on walking trough wgc grids and looking what kind of panels pilots have.
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#27
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
I would love to have espresso in the cockpit on those long, cold
high-altitude flights, but then I'd need a couple of extra gel packs... :-D On 11/27/2016 10:07 AM, krasw wrote: Wow, what do you have in panel then? I'm all ears. My panel has pretty much same stuff you would find in most competition gliders, sans transponder. This comment is based on walking trough wgc grids and looking what kind of panels pilots have. -- Dan, 5J |
#28
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
krasw wrote on 11/27/2016 12:03 AM:
On Saturday, 26 November 2016 17:16:00 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: Not exactly. I know a guy who has a radio, transponder, Butterfly vario, LX9070, S80, Flarm, V3 vario and a strobe built into the vertical fin, that can either act as a strobe or only strobe with a Flarm alert. All that stuff takes about four hours to go through one lithium battery with two factory installed solar panels topping up the battery. Good thing he has two and possibly three batteries (if he is not going to use the engine). Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit. I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding. I have a Butterfly vario, Flarm, radio, Mode C transponder, iGlide on iPhone 6, all of which add up to about 1.4 amps, double your current draw. My panel is not extravagant, not even including a backup vario. I wish I had a solar panel(s) to extend the duration the instrument battery, and charge it on the ground (exchanging batteries is impractical). -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf |
#29
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
On Monday, 28 November 2016 03:30:20 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I have a Butterfly vario, Flarm, radio, Mode C transponder, iGlide on iPhone 6, all of which add up to about 1.4 amps, double your current draw. My panel is not extravagant, not even including a backup vario. I wish I had a solar panel(s) to extend the duration the instrument battery, and charge it on the ground (exchanging batteries is impractical). Sounds like you have only transponder drwaing current I don't have. It has a large current draw though, especially the older ones. Are you using LiFePos or lead batteries? Comparasion is diffult because lead batteries give their rated capacity in room temperature with very slow discharge. Try that in cold weather/higher current and you end up with much less capacity. In my experience 8 Ah Lifepo gives over twice the capacity of normal 7 Ah SLA (11 hrs vs. 5 hrs of operation in my glider) |
#30
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Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel
On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 7:01:02 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Thanks, Bumper, may tackle that this winter. Problem so far is I have not been able to identify what you would think of as a traditional power buss. Thanks Kevin 92 If you have an "avionics master switch", the switch that turns off power to all the toys, then the point to put the isolation diode is in series with the wire coming from the battery to that switch (i.e. when you turn the switch on or off, there is still power constant on one terminal - that's the one coming from the battery :c). The the new battery will wire to that terminal of the switch. If there's no master switch and a bunch of fuses or circuit breakers, and you are blessed with turning off each instrument separately, then you'll need to locate the wire that provides power to those fuses (there may be a common wire going from one fuse to the next to provide power to each) that wire would be serving as the "buss". You'll need to locate the end that comes from the battery and insert the diode in series with that wire at the "first" fuse. |
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