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  #31  
Old May 13th 04, 05:39 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If I'm picking up ice, the laws of physics will take over, and whether
or not they "have to have me" at 8000, I won't be there.


There's little other choice at that point. But there's sure to be
consequences.


  #32  
Old May 13th 04, 02:20 PM
Teacherjh
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what old clearance? You were told told to expect 8,000 on the ground.
Taking off is by definition acceptance of a clearance.


True. But I was expanding the point a bit. You're in the air, cleared at 5000
feet direct to Podunk. Freezing level is 6000 feet. Bigtown approach gives
you a new clearance - 8000 feet and ten miles over the ocean. You reject that
clearance, and still have your old clearance. Ultimately ATC needs to work
this out with you and with other aircraft. You are under no obligation to
accept the new clearance.

You're on the ground, and they offer you a clearance into the ice. You refuse,
you don't go anywhere. You're not in the air yet. You accept it hoping to
negotiate in the air. They won't play ball. You DON'T have an "old clearance"
you can fly - you already accepted the clearance into the ice. If ATC refuses
to play ball because they "need" you somewhere, the laws of physics eventually
take over.

Yes, there will be consequences, and they won't be pretty.

They were two different scenarios, but both involved choosing to refuse (or
not) a clearance.

Jose

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  #33  
Old May 13th 04, 03:05 PM
Newps
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"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If ATC issues a clearance which will cause you to violate the FARs, are
you legally bound to accept it?


No.

If you are in the air, you still fly your old clearance while you reject

the
new one and you and ATC work it out. If you are on the ground however,

ATC has
no incentive to work it out with you. You end up staying on the ground.


You are the one with the incentive to wotk it out in the air. ATC will give
you what you want if they can. But they may not be able to.


  #34  
Old May 13th 04, 10:48 PM
Teacherjh
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ATC will give
you what you want if they can. But they may not be able to.


That seems to be true in most places. It does not seem to be true in the
metropolitan NY area, and this is confirmed by my inquiries during a safety
seminar. They said flat out that you will get 7000 via Pennsylvania no matter
what.

Jose

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