Hardest approach flown so far

Recently, on a long cross country from Portland, OR to Wisconsin, we stopped
at Helena, MT for a gas and pit stop.

Coming from the West with the winds calm, I chose the loc DME BC approach to
runway 9. Even though it's the capitol (is it capital?) of the state, there
is no radar coverage.

First, I had to descend and intercept the DME arc. Once on the arc, we were
in turbulence and IMC, and started picking up ice (my Baron had KI
certification).

Once on the loc BC, there are several step down fixes, but since we were
given the approach clearance several thousand feet high, I had a hard time
reaching the DME fixes at a low enough altitude.

Of course, without radar, the tower was asking us to report position, and I
had to keep telling him I was unable to reach the desired altitudes due to
the excessive descent rate required.

Finally, before the last fix we broke out into VMC, with the valley below
and the airport in sight, still several thousand feet high. We circled once,
and then landed without difficulty.

It was a great learning experience, but I'm not sure what to have done
differently. I already had the approach flaps out, and contemplated putting
down the gear to help the descent, but hesitated doing this in icing
conditions (what if I needed to pull up the gear again for some reason
during the approach covered in ice?)

I could have chopped the power (was already at 15 inches) and descending at
over 1,000 fpm near Va, but I felt a stabilized approach in ice and in
mountainous terrain was safer than making even more radical pitch and power
changes.

I felt like I was behind the eight ball from the start. Is there a better
way to have handled the approach?

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
I felt like I was behind the eight ball from the start. Is there a better
way to have handled the approach?

Given your judgement, you did the best you could. I haven't looked at the
approach, but based on your statement that you were put on the approach
several thousand feet high, maybe you could have asked for a loop in a hold
or descent to MEA before getting there. Did you go into the approach knowing
that you would break out at an altitude that would allow comfortable
circling? Otherwise, doing the necessary dive is what it takes. If the
circumstances don't allow it, go somewhere else.

You descended at a rate and configuration you were comfortable with - ready
to go missed, if necessary. Sounds like you did all the right things (other
than asking for lower before the approach) and you landed safely.

Were you using the eFB?
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

No EFB- paper all the way. The surrounding terrain is pretty intimidating,
with lots of red areas on the Garmin terrain page on either side of the
approach. I was given the slam dunk approach by Center, but it certainly
added a lot to the work load.

Still carry the EFB as a back up in case we divert to an airport where I
don't have paper. Recently travelled from Wisconsin to Portland, and then
back, and the following week made a trip to Vermont. It's a lot of charts to
buy and lug around, and it seems like fewer FBO's carry them these days.

Of course, the trip ended up being right in the middle of a revision cycle,
so this required even more paper. Still not comfortable using the EFB as a
primary chart source.

Viperdoc wrote:

Recently, on a long cross country from Portland, OR to Wisconsin, we stopped
at Helena, MT for a gas and pit stop.

Coming from the West with the winds calm, I chose the loc DME BC approach to
runway 9. Even though it's the capitol (is it capital?) of the state, there
is no radar coverage.
/snip/

Do you have an approach certified GPS on board? If so, you might have
chosen the GPS 9 instead. Since, like most GPS approaches, it's much
simpler to accomplish than an arc to a Back Course, it might have at
least lessened your workload during a bumpy, icy appraoch to an
unfamiliar airport. Also, the initial approach fix, SCAAT, is over 20
miles from the runway, and has a published hold. Both of those features
might have helped you get down easier.

As for executing the BC, sounds like you did as best you could. That
one leaves you up pretty high, to begin with.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

Actually have two certified GPS on board, a Garmin 530 and a 430, both with
WAAS. One was tuned to the inbound, and the other had the terrain page. It
was a tricky approach, and the lack of radar didn't make it any easier.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 06:47:17 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote:

As a foreign (to the USA) pilot, I have the following questions:
1. The US Terps allows a maximum of 300 feet per nautical mile for
both the the intial approach segment and intermediate segment, I
believe. Did you require a lesser descent gradient because of icing?
2. I think you can call by a fix, but do not have to be at the
charted minimum altitude, so no requirement to advise tower of that.

Stan


Once on the loc BC, there are several step down fixes, but since we were
given the approach clearance several thousand feet high, I had a hard time
reaching the DME fixes at a low enough altitude.

Of course, without radar, the tower was asking us to report position, and I
had to keep telling him I was unable to reach the desired altitudes due to
the excessive descent rate required.

"Viperdoc" writes:
Recently, on a long cross country from Portland, OR to Wisconsin, we stopped
at Helena, MT for a gas and pit stop.

Coming from the West with the winds calm, I chose the loc DME BC approach to
runway 9. Even though it's the capitol (is it capital?) of the state, there
is no radar coverage.

Yes, Helena is the capitol of Montana. Visit the refurbished
capitol building. Very casual atmosphere when the legislature
is not in session.

First, I had to descend and intercept the DME arc. Once on the arc, we were
in turbulence and IMC, and started picking up ice (my Baron had KI
certification).

Once on the loc BC, there are several step down fixes, but since we were
given the approach clearance several thousand feet high, I had a hard time
reaching the DME fixes at a low enough altitude.

Of course, without radar, the tower was asking us to report position, and I
had to keep telling him I was unable to reach the desired altitudes due to
the excessive descent rate required.

Finally, before the last fix we broke out into VMC, with the valley below
and the airport in sight, still several thousand feet high. We circled once,
and then landed without difficulty.

It was a great learning experience, but I'm not sure what to have done
differently. I already had the approach flaps out, and contemplated putting
down the gear to help the descent, but hesitated doing this in icing
conditions (what if I needed to pull up the gear again for some reason
during the approach covered in ice?)

I could have chopped the power (was already at 15 inches) and descending at
over 1,000 fpm near Va, but I felt a stabilized approach in ice and in
mountainous terrain was safer than making even more radical pitch and power
changes.

I felt like I was behind the eight ball from the start. Is there a better
way to have handled the approach?

Ask for a couple of 360s somewhere to get down to a more
reasonable altitude? You probably have the whole sky to
yourself, so the controllers will probably accommodate
you.

Even though it's the capitol (is it capital?) of the state,

The building is a capitol, the town is the capital.

Finally, before the last fix we broke out into VMC, with the valley
below
and the airport in sight, still several thousand feet high. We circled once,
and then landed without difficulty.

If you had obtained WX and knew you would break out into VMC, then I'd
say you handled it prudently; otoh, if you knew the ceiling was well
above minimums, why were you concerned about having to do a missed
approach with the gear down?

vince norris

There is no radar, and the final approach course is surrounded by mountains,
so I would think circling would have been outside of the protected area of
the localizer. Also, circling in turbulence and icing is not a very
appealing option. I was told by center to intercept the DME arc, but was not
given final approach clearance until established on the localizer BC.

The DME and altitude call outs to the tower were required because again,
there was no radar. The step downs were all based on DME, and he wanted to
know where I was on the approach.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:46:04 PST,
(Everett M. Greene) wrote:

"Viperdoc" writes:
Recently, on a long cross country from Portland, OR to Wisconsin, we stopped
at Helena, MT for a gas and pit stop.

Coming from the West with the winds calm, I chose the loc DME BC approach to
runway 9. Even though it's the capitol (is it capital?) of the state, there
is no radar coverage.

Yes, Helena is the capitol of Montana. Visit the refurbished
capitol building. Very casual atmosphere when the legislature
is not in session.



No, Helena is the CAPITAL of Montana, where the refurbished CAPITOL
building is located.



First, I had to descend and intercept the DME arc. Once on the arc, we were
in turbulence and IMC, and started picking up ice (my Baron had KI
certification).

Once on the loc BC, there are several step down fixes, but since we were
given the approach clearance several thousand feet high, I had a hard time
reaching the DME fixes at a low enough altitude.

Of course, without radar, the tower was asking us to report position, and I
had to keep telling him I was unable to reach the desired altitudes due to
the excessive descent rate required.

Finally, before the last fix we broke out into VMC, with the valley below
and the airport in sight, still several thousand feet high. We circled once,
and then landed without difficulty.

It was a great learning experience, but I'm not sure what to have done
differently. I already had the approach flaps out, and contemplated putting
down the gear to help the descent, but hesitated doing this in icing
conditions (what if I needed to pull up the gear again for some reason
during the approach covered in ice?)

I could have chopped the power (was already at 15 inches) and descending at
over 1,000 fpm near Va, but I felt a stabilized approach in ice and in
mountainous terrain was safer than making even more radical pitch and power
changes.

I felt like I was behind the eight ball from the start. Is there a better
way to have handled the approach?

Ask for a couple of 360s somewhere to get down to a more
reasonable altitude? You probably have the whole sky to
yourself, so the controllers will probably accommodate
you.