Overweight? Out of CG? Stalled? Too slow?

Matt Whiting wrote:

I'm not as certain as you. Ground effect begins to be detectable at one
wing span of altitude above the grond, but just barely (see reference).
I was always taught that it really is only signficant at 1/2 the wing
span. However, I agree with you that the airplane appeared to get 50 -
75 feet high which is well out of ground effect. He should have been
able to fly away once getting to that height. I wonder if something got
into the controls or something like that. I just am not sure that what
we saw is completely explained by either overloading or out of balance.

Matt

Sorry, forgot the reference.

http://avstop.com/AC/FlightTraingHan...undEffect.html

Matt

Looks to me overloaded and out of CG.
The Oxy cylinder would be very heavy, does not appear to be strapped in
and possibly moved back on rotation. My best bet is shifting load in
overloaded aircraft. I also wonder about the position of the flaps. It
looked like a lot of flap to me. Put all of that into a high density
altitude situation and you are in a world of hurt.

Tony


Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article .com,
"Flyingmonk" wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2X...rplane%20pilot




--

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:
Flyingmonk wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2X...rplane%20pilot

Overweight? Out of CG? Stalled? Too slow? What do you all think?

Hard to tell from that. I don't understand Spanish and wasn't sure I
understood the video.


It was a medical flight. There were 4 people on the plane. Pilot, mother,
child and doctor. It took off and crushed. Narrator is telling that 'like
pushed by a gigantic force, the plane was brought down into a nearby school'

Only pilot survived, baddly burned. The other three died on impact.

There is audio from the pilot giving briefing to the mother, who was
very, very nervous, about not touching anything. All footage is secuential.



--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.

Eduardo K. wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Flyingmonk wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2X...rplane%20pilot

Overweight? Out of CG? Stalled? Too slow? What do you all think?

Hard to tell from that. I don't understand Spanish and wasn't sure I
understood the video.



It was a medical flight. There were 4 people on the plane. Pilot, mother,
child and doctor. It took off and crushed. Narrator is telling that 'like
pushed by a gigantic force, the plane was brought down into a nearby school'

Only pilot survived, baddly burned. The other three died on impact.

There is audio from the pilot giving briefing to the mother, who was
very, very nervous, about not touching anything. All footage is secuential.

Thanks for the translation information. Was this a recent accident? If
not, has an official investigation report been issued with probably cause?

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Thanks for the translation information. Was this a recent accident? If
not, has an official investigation report been issued with probably cause?

Matt

No idea. I only know what I saw in the video.


--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.

In article nospam-FE6576.19093818062006@shawnews,
tony roberts wrote:

Looks to me overloaded and out of CG.
The Oxy cylinder would be very heavy, does not appear to be strapped in
and possibly moved back on rotation. My best bet is shifting load in
overloaded aircraft. I also wonder about the position of the flaps. It
looked like a lot of flap to me. Put all of that into a high density
altitude situation and you are in a world of hurt.



Looks like 20 degrees of flaps which is normal for short-field work in a
182.

It looked to me like he lost directional control, or couldn't see well
enough to track the runway. Looks as if he comes off the right side of
the runway.

The skid looked like maybe he wasn't using any right rudder to counter
p-factor, but it's odd that he came off the right side of the
runway..you'd think he would have gone left in that case. Crosswind
perhaps?

I think it's very possible that they were under max takeoff weight, but
without knowing how high or hot they were...

Looked like the gurney and O2 tank was jammed pretty hard against his
seat back. I wonder if maybe his seat wasn't locked in and slid back if
the gurney moved aft on rotation. The time I witnessed someone do that
they were flying pretty crappy...might explain the lack of corrective
action.

Sad.

It looks to me like there might be a lot of right rudder
applied, possibly by a frightened passenger, and the pilot is using
left aileron to counteract it. The overall drag gets too high and
brings the airplane down in a marginal DA and gross weight situation,
maybe aggravated by a distracted pilot trying to get the passenger off
the pedals.
Just a guess, but there's a frame or two where the rudder
looks cocked right.

Dan

In article .com,
wrote:

It looks to me like there might be a lot of right rudder
applied, possibly by a frightened passenger, and the pilot is using
left aileron to counteract it. The overall drag gets too high and
brings the airplane down in a marginal DA and gross weight situation,
maybe aggravated by a distracted pilot trying to get the passenger off
the pedals.
Just a guess, but there's a frame or two where the rudder
looks cocked right.

Dan


The nose is cocked off to the left and the airplane is slipping to the
right...wouldn't be right rudder.

Dale wrote:
In article .com,
The nose is cocked off to the left and the airplane is slipping to the
right...wouldn't be right rudder.


You know, I almost wonder if the pilot's seat didn't slip back on him. That
might explain the cocked attitude going down the runway. If his load was
marginal (and it sure looked like it was) it would have been easy to lose it
while trying to reach the rudder pedals without pulling back the yoke at the
same time as he tried to scoot forward. Plausible?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Plausible?


As ugly as it looked, it certainly is plausible to me.