Bush's Trip: 747 or C-17 Which would you Choose?

Nick Coleman wrote:
Gene Storey wrote:


747.

AF1 has IR jammers on the engines. The C-17 only has flares,
and they wouldn't be good for stealth arrival.



Can you give me a few clues on this? I don't understand how IR jammers
would work. If the radiation is being emitted, then it is being emitted.
It's not like swamping a signal with a whole bunch of noise, like radar
jammers. IE the radar needs the discrete frequency returns to decode the
signal, but IR just needs IR emmissions from a point source and then zeroes
in on the point source.

Thanks,
Nick

Most missile guidance systems don't work in quite that manner. They
have various algorithms for both aiming the seeker head and determining
the validity of the received IR source. IRCM techniques include both
fooling the logic of the algorithm as well as overwhelming or blinding
the missile's IR sensor itself.

Mike

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...
It's not exactly the same, but unless you see both aircraft
side-by-side, you would swear they were the same.

No.

The E4As and E4Bs don't even have the same paint as each other, let alone
the VC-25A.

There was even one in FEMA paint during the Clinton Administration.

KenG

Are you the Garlington spam bot?

Tex Houston wrote:
"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:2TYxb.16305$o9.9528@fed1read07...

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:ZBTxb.15791$o9.3280@fed1read07...

Your in charge of flying the president to Baghdad

Your choices are a 747 or a C-17. The G5 is out since you have to

make

a

refueling stop which could blow security. Clinton flew to Kosovo in a

C-17

How about throwing the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center
aircraft
into the mix?

Don't they have an identical paint job as AF1?


I don't think so. The blue and white paint scheme with "United States
of
America" on the two VC-25s is pretty distinctive. I haven't seen the
E-4
for many years however.

Tex

Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...

KenG

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...

It's not exactly the same, but unless you see both aircraft
side-by-side, you would swear they were the same.


No.

The E4As and E4Bs don't even have the same paint as each other, let alone
the VC-25A.

There was even one in FEMA paint during the Clinton Administration.


KenG


Are you the Garlington spam bot?


Tex Houston wrote:

"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:2TYxb.16305$o9.9528@fed1read07...


"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...


"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:ZBTxb.15791$o9.3280@fed1read07...


Your in charge of flying the president to Baghdad

Your choices are a 747 or a C-17. The G5 is out since you have to

make


a


refueling stop which could blow security. Clinton flew to Kosovo in a

C-17


How about throwing the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center

aircraft

into the mix?

Don't they have an identical paint job as AF1?


I don't think so. The blue and white paint scheme with "United States

of

America" on the two VC-25s is pretty distinctive. I haven't seen the

E-4

for many years however.

Tex

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...
Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...

I havn't seen the picture of an E4 in FEMA paint since the Clinton
Administration.

You did know they are As and Bs?

Are you posting that you are the Garlington spam bot in "kook troll" mode?

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...

Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...


I havn't seen the picture of an E4 in FEMA paint since the Clinton
Administration.

You did know they are As and Bs?

Are you posting that you are the Garlington spam bot in "kook troll" mode?


AS I SAID... "Sorry to Disappoint". BTW I left the program in '87, and
am not fully up on what transpired since then. At that time we had
both..... Son-of-a-Bitch, here I am trying to have an cogent
conversation with Tarver...Nevermind.

KenG

"Leadfoot" wrote in news:KMYxb.16302$o9.15166
@fed1read07:
"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote in message
...
"Leadfoot" wrote in
news:ZBTxb.15791$o9.3280@fed1read07:

Your in charge of flying the president to Baghdad

Your choices are a 747 or a C-17. The G5 is out since you have
to make a refueling stop which could blow security.

Wouldn't it also sink into the pavement on many runways
when parked for more than a few hours?

G5 is Gulfstream 5. occasionally used by the president.

Ah of course, my bust.


Regards...

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...

Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...


I havn't seen the picture of an E4 in FEMA paint since the Clinton
Administration.

You did know they are As and Bs?

Are you posting that you are the Garlington spam bot in "kook troll"
mode?

AS I SAID... "Sorry to Disappoint".

Oh I am, that could have been great fun.

BTW I left the program in '87, and
am not fully up on what transpired since then.

A lot of things have changed since '87.

At that time we had
both.....

Both what?

There are no E-4A aircraft. There are only E-4B. There was never one
painted in FEMA "paint", whatever scheme that could possibly be. I was in
the group on the Joint Staff responsible for setting up the mission for
FEMA, which is a secondary tasking, when the name of the aircraft was
changed to NAOC from NEACP and I have a few dozen hours on the aircraft as a
battlestaff evaluator.

E-4B aircraft are visually very distinct from the VC-25A. There is no
satcom antennae fairing, that large "bubble" on top of the E-4B, on the
VC-25A which makes them very hard to confuse.

JB

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...
Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...

KenG

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...

It's not exactly the same, but unless you see both aircraft
side-by-side, you would swear they were the same.


No.

The E4As and E4Bs don't even have the same paint as each other, let
alone
the VC-25A.

There was even one in FEMA paint during the Clinton Administration.


KenG


Are you the Garlington spam bot?


Tex Houston wrote:

"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:2TYxb.16305$o9.9528@fed1read07...


"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...


"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:ZBTxb.15791$o9.3280@fed1read07...


Your in charge of flying the president to Baghdad

Your choices are a 747 or a C-17. The G5 is out since you have to

make


a


refueling stop which could blow security. Clinton flew to Kosovo in
a

C-17


How about throwing the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center

aircraft

into the mix?

Don't they have an identical paint job as AF1?


I don't think so. The blue and white paint scheme with "United States

of

America" on the two VC-25s is pretty distinctive. I haven't seen the

E-4

for many years however.

Tex

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
. ..
There are no E-4A aircraft. There are only E-4B. There was never one
painted in FEMA "paint", whatever scheme that could possibly be.

That would explain our PMA for E-4A/E-4B/747-200 airplanes.

Thanks for playing.

Ken,

Thought I would give you a link and copy of some material on that website
since you were assigned to the aircraft at one time. Good bit of info. At
the time I was involved with the NEACP/NAOC (1992-1995) it was assigned to
the JS which exercised Operational Control (OpCon) over the asset. ACC was
the aircraft/aircrew manager and STRATCOM merely provided home basing
facilities. That may have changed over the past few years.

If you search for VC-25A and E-4B, you'll see the obvious difference in the
aircraft. The paint scheme, if not identical, are very similar.

Regards,

JB

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/fs_99.shtml

"Background
The E-4B evolved from the E-4A, which had been in service since late 1974.
The first B model was delivered to the Air Force in January 1980, and by
1985 all aircraft were converted to B models. All E-4B are assigned to the
55th Wing, Offutt Air Force Base, Neb"


"Jim Baker" wrote in message
. ..
There are no E-4A aircraft. There are only E-4B. There was never one
painted in FEMA "paint", whatever scheme that could possibly be. I was in
the group on the Joint Staff responsible for setting up the mission for
FEMA, which is a secondary tasking, when the name of the aircraft was
changed to NAOC from NEACP and I have a few dozen hours on the aircraft as
a
battlestaff evaluator.

E-4B aircraft are visually very distinct from the VC-25A. There is no
satcom antennae fairing, that large "bubble" on top of the E-4B, on the
VC-25A which makes them very hard to confuse.

JB

"KenG" wrote in message
. com...
Sorry to disappoint. I was unaware of paint changes made since I left my
flying position on them. I never saw the FEMA paint scheme. Can you
point to a picture som.... Hey wait a minute... Tarver??? Nevermind...

KenG

snip