If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#131
|
|||
|
|||
"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:03:18 GMT, "Bill Daniels" wrote: There does seem to be a condition experienced by some people who find it hard to make fast mental adjustments from one set of conditions to another. One moment they are setting on the ground and 35 seconds later then are high in the sky at the controls of a glider and struggling to cope. The rush of a winch launch may create a sensory overload beyond their ability to manage. Hmmm... I never saw this during a winch launch yet. The work load during a winch launch is very low compared to an aerotow - the only thing you really need to watch is airspeed and the "bang" of a rope break. The situation you describe (when the pilot gets behind the plane) happens much more often during very low maneuvering (like low approaches) - suddenly pilot looses track of airspeed and stalls, for example (just as the clip I posted shows). Bye Andreas It's probably because you and your friends are accustomed to winch launch as a normal way to get gliders into the air. In the USA, winch launch is still a novelty for most glider pilots. I very much agree that the workload is far less during a winch launch as compared to airtow, but the sensations are quite novel for the uninitiated. I once gave a 747 captain his first glider ride on a winch. After release, I asked him what he thought of the launch. His answer, "I have no idea what just happened" - "I have never felt so far behind an aircraft". Bill Daniels |
#132
|
|||
|
|||
In power planes I often wondered how high I would need to turn around,
and the biggest difference seemed to be how well I was climbing. In a heavy Piper Arrow on a hot day, We couldn't climb fast enough to ever glide back regardless how high we went if we did a straight out or 45 departure. Departing downwind was another story, of course. On hot days with heavy loads at Avenal, the tug sometimes turns very gently at low altitudes to downwind. I recall flying a two seater open cockpit on a very hot day and seeing miserable climb out of us and the 150/150. In our case not a problem with all the flat ground, but still a bit disconcerting to be so far out and low... |
#133
|
|||
|
|||
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
nk.net... I once gave a 747 captain his first glider ride on a winch. After release, I asked him what he thought of the launch. His answer, "I have no idea what just happened" - "I have never felt so far behind an aircraft". Bill Daniels He probably missed not having his co-pilot to do the flying for him. Pat Barfield :-) |
#134
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:05:17 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote: It's probably because you and your friends are accustomed to winch launch as a normal way to get gliders into the air. In the USA, winch launch is still a novelty for most glider pilots. I very much agree that the workload is far less during a winch launch as compared to airtow, but the sensations are quite novel for the uninitiated. Sure this is the case. But it's nothing that coud not be trained away with 30 winch launches... Bye Andreas |
#135
|
|||
|
|||
What in-air signals? I had no radio, but even if I had it was clear that the
tug pilot was having an interesting day, so I wouldn't have wanted to distract him. Fortunately this was in East Anglia in the UK, so there was a constant set of fields each about the size of a normal gliding club site. "Shirley" wrote in message ... Chris Reed wrote: We climbed (very slowly) to 400ft and then stayed there while we flew in a straight line at least 3 miles from the airfield. It's the only time I've been field spotting on tow for such a long time. Not suprisingly, I failed to soar once we reached the release height of 2,000 ft Was it not possible for you to use the in-air signals to steer the tow pilot back toward the field? |
#136
|
|||
|
|||
"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:3fa5f571$1@darkstar... In power planes I often wondered how high I would need to turn around, and the biggest difference seemed to be how well I was climbing. In a heavy Piper Arrow on a hot day, We couldn't climb fast enough to ever glide back regardless how high we went if we did a straight out or 45 departure. Departing downwind was another story, of course. On hot days with heavy loads at Avenal, the tug sometimes turns very gently at low altitudes to downwind. I recall flying a two seater open cockpit on a very hot day and seeing miserable climb out of us and the 150/150. In our case not a problem with all the flat ground, but still a bit disconcerting to be so far out and low... Back in around 1970 a power instructor who had witnessed glider 200 foot 180 turns back to the runway wanted to try some in a Cessna 150. I rode with him as we tried a few at a safe altitude. The 150 was one of the old ones with a straight tail and manual flaps. The glider technique of a 45 degree banked turn was very marginal. We then experimented with some more aggressive maneuvers. The best seem to be a sort of diving 180 degree rolling turn with a pullout from the dive on the reciprocal heading. We came out of the dive headed towards the runway at high airspeed but in ground effect which got us to the runway with ease. Once we were confident of our technique, we tried a few at Caddo Mills, TX. At the time, Caddo Mills was just abandoned runways with no buildings or fences and surrounded by alfalfa fields. The 45 degree turn never made it back but the diving roll did work if you were quick and aggressive. We both agreed that the conventional instruction of not trying a 180 below about 500 feet was best. Bill Daniels |
#137
|
|||
|
|||
Chris Reed wrote:
What in-air signals? I had no radio, Well, in the US we have this http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GB...t/signals.html it was clear that the tug pilot was having an interesting day, so I wouldn't have wanted to distract him. A valid point. Tony V. |
#138
|
|||
|
|||
"Bill Daniels" wrote:
"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:3fa5f571$1@darkstar... In power planes I often wondered how high I would need to turn around, and the biggest difference seemed to be how well I was climbing. In a heavy Piper Arrow on a hot day, We couldn't climb fast enough to ever glide back regardless how high we went if we did a straight out or 45 departure. Departing downwind was another story, of course. On hot days with heavy loads at Avenal, the tug sometimes turns very gently at low altitudes to downwind. I recall flying a two seater open cockpit on a very hot day and seeing miserable climb out of us and the 150/150. In our case not a problem with all the flat ground, but still a bit disconcerting to be so far out and low... Back in around 1970 a power instructor who had witnessed glider 200 foot 180 turns back to the runway wanted to try some in a Cessna 150. I rode with him as we tried a few at a safe altitude. The 150 was one of the old ones with a straight tail and manual flaps. The glider technique of a 45 degree banked turn was very marginal. We then experimented with some more aggressive maneuvers. The best seem to be a sort of diving 180 degree rolling turn with a pullout from the dive on the reciprocal heading. We came out of the dive headed towards the runway at high airspeed but in ground effect which got us to the runway with ease. Once we were confident of our technique, we tried a few at Caddo Mills, TX. At the time, Caddo Mills was just abandoned runways with no buildings or fences and surrounded by alfalfa fields. The 45 degree turn never made it back but the diving roll did work if you were quick and aggressive. We both agreed that the conventional instruction of not trying a 180 below about 500 feet was best. Bill Daniels Many years ago a highly respected aerobatic pilot in UK (still working today) wrote an article in our Pilot magazine on this subject. He reminded us that three things were required: 1. A rapid 180 degree change of heading. 2. Minimum loss of height. 3. Normal airspeed at the end of the manoever. Controversially, he maintained that a highly banked slipping turn satisfies all three criteria. The rate of decent is very high during the turn, but the duration is so short that it results in less height loss than either of the two alternatives (eg:slow and gentle or fast and furious), and the airspeed is normal throughout. Just don't forget to keep loads of top rudder on. - Colin |
#139
|
|||
|
|||
From a UK perspective the signals are unexpected! We have one signal from
glider to tug (Can't release) and two from tug to glider (release now, spoilers out). These are the same as the US signals. UK tug pilots are an independent breed - I imagine that trying to tell them where to go could leave you dropped in fierce sink. On the other hand, prior negotiation coupled with flattery can get you to that good thermal (especially if you repay the tow in the bar later on). "Tony Verhulst" wrote in message ... Chris Reed wrote: What in-air signals? I had no radio, Well, in the US we have this http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GB...t/signals.html it was clear that the tug pilot was having an interesting day, so I wouldn't have wanted to distract him. A valid point. Tony V. |
#140
|
|||
|
|||
Colin wrote:
Many years ago a highly respected aerobatic pilot in UK (still working today) wrote an article in our Pilot magazine on this subject. He reminded us that three things were required: 1. A rapid 180 degree change of heading. 2. Minimum loss of height. 3. Normal airspeed at the end of the manoever. Controversially, he maintained that a highly banked slipping turn satisfies all three criteria. The rate of decent is very high during the turn, but the duration is so short that it results in less height loss than either of the two alternatives (eg:slow and gentle or fast and furious), and the airspeed is normal throughout. Just don't forget to keep loads of top rudder on. - Colin I don't see why the turn should be a slipping one, you certainly will loose more height in a slipping turn than in a normal one. And height loss is what make the turn possible or not. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Parachute fails to save SR-22 | Capt.Doug | Piloting | 72 | February 10th 05 05:14 AM |
spaceship one | Pianome | Home Built | 169 | June 30th 04 05:47 AM |
The Internet public meeting on National Air Tour Standards begins Feb. 23 at 9 a.m. | Larry Dighera | Piloting | 0 | February 22nd 04 03:58 PM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |
using winch instead of aerotow | goneill | Soaring | 5 | August 27th 03 02:46 PM |