Charted Visual Flight Procedures

wrote in message ...

hmmm...


INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions
expressed in terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling less
than the minima specified for visual meteorological conditions.

VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions expressed in
terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling equal to or better
than specified minima.

According to those two definitions, taken in context, both IMC and VMC are
related to "specified minima." What's the definition of specified minima?
In my example, the minima specified under Part 97 for the hypothetical VOR
approach are 700 feet HAT, and visibility of 1 mile. Since my flight
conditions exceed those values seems like I am VMC, but not VFR.


The minima referred to are specified in FAR 91.155. To be VMC in Class D
airspace requires at least three miles visibility, distances from clouds of
at least 500 feet below, 1,000 feet above, and 2,000 feet horizontally, and
if a ceiling is present the ceiling must be not less than 1,000 feet.
You're confusing these with approach minima.

The DoD defines these a bit more clearly than the FAA:

INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS
(DOD) Meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance
from cloud, and ceiling; less than minimums specified for visual
meteorological conditions. Also called IMC. See also visual meteorological
conditions.



VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS

(DOD) Weather conditions in which visual flight rules apply; expressed in
terms of visibility, ceiling height, and aircraft clearance from clouds
along the path of flight. When these criteria do not exist, instrument
meteorological conditions prevail and instrument flight rules must be
complied with. Also called VMC. See also instrument meteorological
conditions.

Seems like the FAA needs to adopt the DOD definitions.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

hmmm...


INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions
expressed in terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling less
than the minima specified for visual meteorological conditions.

VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions expressed in
terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling equal to or better
than specified minima.

According to those two definitions, taken in context, both IMC and VMC are
related to "specified minima." What's the definition of specified minima?
In my example, the minima specified under Part 97 for the hypothetical VOR
approach are 700 feet HAT, and visibility of 1 mile. Since my flight
conditions exceed those values seems like I am VMC, but not VFR.


The minima referred to are specified in FAR 91.155. To be VMC in Class D
airspace requires at least three miles visibility, distances from clouds of
at least 500 feet below, 1,000 feet above, and 2,000 feet horizontally, and
if a ceiling is present the ceiling must be not less than 1,000 feet.
You're confusing these with approach minima.

The DoD defines these a bit more clearly than the FAA:

INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS
(DOD) Meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance
from cloud, and ceiling; less than minimums specified for visual
meteorological conditions. Also called IMC. See also visual meteorological
conditions.

VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS

(DOD) Weather conditions in which visual flight rules apply; expressed in
terms of visibility, ceiling height, and aircraft clearance from clouds
along the path of flight. When these criteria do not exist, instrument
meteorological conditions prevail and instrument flight rules must be
complied with. Also called VMC. See also instrument meteorological
conditions.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, I'm certainly glad you guys CLEARED up that ambiguious issue?
I've forgotten, can ATC issue this procedure if the aircraft is in IMC
or not????


Yes, as being in VMC when the clearance is issued is not one of the required
conditions.

But, if the pilot cannot see the airport, or preceding aircraft (if applicable)
when the clearance is issued then he has the obligation to refuse the clearance
based on his inability to comply.

wrote in message ...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, I'm certainly glad you guys CLEARED up that ambiguious issue?
I've forgotten, can ATC issue this procedure if the aircraft is in IMC
or not????


Yes, as being in VMC when the clearance is issued is not one of the
required
conditions.


But, if the pilot cannot see the airport, or preceding aircraft (if
applicable)
when the clearance is issued then he has the obligation to refuse the
clearance
based on his inability to comply.


The pilot must make that report BEFORE clearance for a visual approach can
be issued. But the question you quoted above was asked about the charted
visual flight procedure at Reno, not about a visual approach in general.
With a CVFP the required report is not of the airport but of a charted
visual landmark. A pilot can be in IMC when he makes that report and be
cleared for the approach.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

If I am flying a VOR approach to a Class D airport where the reported
weather is 800 overcast, visibility 2 miles, and the MDA is 700 feet HAT,
minimum vis 1 mile, and I become clear clouds at 750 feet, HAT, I
determine
that my flight visibility is 2.5 s.m., am I VMC or IMC as I pass through
400 feet,
HAT, on descent with all visual requirements of 91.175 being continuously
met?


IMC

Another thought to expand on my hypothetical stated above: Paragraph 251 of
TERPs deals with the obstacle clearance requirements for the visual segment of
the final approach segment; i.e. inside the DA point or inside the point where
descent is normally presumed to occur from MDA on a straight-in approach. The
title of the paragraph is Visual Segment of the Final Approach Segment.

That seems to support the fact that the FAA TERPS folks consider descent below
MDA or continuing of descent below DA to be a VMC flight operation.

This stuff perhaps is not as black and white as you seem to think it to be.