How do you leave this airport IMC?

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
UNIX was half a billion (500000000) seconds old on
Tue Nov 5 00:53:20 1985 GMT (measuring since the time(2) epoch).
-- Andy Tannenbaum

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.

Morris is speaking of the takeoff minimums, not the landing minimums.
Takeoff minimums should permit a safe takeoff.

There's no requirement to reach the MSA, though. That's only applicable if
you get lost. If you fly the DP and keep climbing while you intercept your
airway, you should be safe (though of course it's a good idea to verify that
with the Detroit sectional chart).

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
There's no requirement to reach the MSA, though. That's only applicable if
you get lost. If you fly the DP and keep climbing while you intercept your
airway, you should be safe (though of course it's a good idea to verify
that with the Detroit sectional chart).

Oh, and if you'll be intercepting the airway below MEA, it's also a good
idea to verify VOR reception, taking account of standard service volume and
any notes in the A/FD.

--Gary

In article , Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.

Sure, but the book lists departure minima for 10/28. I can't
figure out how to go from those minima to enroute safely. If
the minima are there, I'd assume there was a way.


Morris

Journeyman wrote in
:

Sure, but the book lists departure minima for 10/28. I can't
figure out how to go from those minima to enroute safely. If
the minima are there, I'd assume there was a way.

That's a non sequitur. You can safely be in IMC entirely above the
departure minima. I'm still not sure what you mean about getting from
departure minima to MEA.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

In article , Stan Gosnell wrote:

Sure, but the book lists departure minima for 10/28. I can't
figure out how to go from those minima to enroute safely. If
the minima are there, I'd assume there was a way.

That's a non sequitur. You can safely be in IMC entirely above the
departure minima. I'm still not sure what you mean about getting from
departure minima to MEA.

Thanks for all the replies. Got it straight now. The missing piece
was pretty simple and basic. I'm familiar with approach procedures,
but it's been a while since I've departed IFR anywhere but my home
airport.

I forgot that departure procedures assume a minimum climb gradient,
and the airports are surveyed to keep you clear of obstacles if you
meet the performance requirement.

Missing that piece of information, it just seemed odd that you could
go up a few hundred feet, turn in any direction and be safe even if
you're below the MSA.


Morris

"Journeyman" wrote in message
. ..

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Departing runway 28 I'd make sure I crossed the departure end of the runway
at least 35 feet above the departure end of runway elevation, that should be
easy as the runway slopes downward to the west some 45 feet. I'd climb to
400 feet above the departure end of runway elevation before making my
initial turn and I'd maintain a minimum climb gradient of 200 feet per
nautical mile until above the minimum IFR altitude.

In article . net, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

Departing runway 28 I'd make sure I crossed the departure end of the runway
at least 35 feet above the departure end of runway elevation, that should be
easy as the runway slopes downward to the west some 45 feet. I'd climb to
400 feet above the departure end of runway elevation before making my
initial turn and I'd maintain a minimum climb gradient of 200 feet per
nautical mile until above the minimum IFR altitude.

Thanks, Steven. That was the missing piece of information.


Morris (heading back to the books for a refresher)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Journeyman" wrote in message
. ..

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Departing runway 28 I'd make sure I crossed the departure end of the
runway at least 35 feet above the departure end of runway elevation, that
should be easy as the runway slopes downward to the west some 45 feet.
I'd climb to 400 feet above the departure end of runway elevation before
making my initial turn and I'd maintain a minimum climb gradient of 200
feet per nautical mile until above the minimum IFR altitude.


If there are no specific instructions on the DP it is considered a "diverse
departure". Like Steven says, you only have to cross the departure end of
the runway at 35' (or greater) and climb 200'/nm to 400' at which point you
can turn any direction and continue to climb 200'/nm to a published altitude
(MEA, MOCA, OROCA). The actual obstacle plane is 152'/nm so you are gaining
48' of additional clearance each mile if you are climbing the minimium
(200'/nm).

In the IDI case there are obstacles that penatrate the obstacle plane, that
is the reason for listing TO minimiums. Once you are above the 300' or 600'
you won't hit anything if you climb 200'/nm. Below those altitudes you must
avoid obstacles visually

The "gotyas" on a departure of this kind are cross winds and tail winds.
Crosswinds can put you off centerline and into the obstacles, You really
should be flying a runway track as opposed to a heading. A tail wind will
reduce your climb gradient because of your increased groundspeed. In really
strong winds you might want to climb higher than 400' before turning and
make your turns into the wind even if it means turing 300 deg instead of 60
deg.

There was an article in IFR about diverse departures recently.

Mike
MU-2