Glider crash at Moriarty

What I mean is a logbook entry stating that the installation was performed using approved data - the ELT manufacturer's installation instructions, AC43-13, aircraft manufacturer's maintenance manual or TN etc. The sorts of things that the document you linked to talks about. I would like to find something like that that states an antenna installation that's practical in a non metal glider is OK. As yet I haven't and as far as I can tell it would be contrary to the ELT manufacturer's installation instructions and the linked AC seems to state that if one does that it is no longer a minor mod. There's a DG TN about 406's but it's not available online so I don't know what's in it.

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 1:36:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
What I mean is a logbook entry stating that the installation was performed using approved data - the ELT manufacturer's installation instructions, AC43-13, aircraft manufacturer's maintenance manual or TN etc. The sorts of things that the document you linked to talks about. I would like to find something like that that states an antenna installation that's practical in a non metal glider is OK. As yet I haven't and as far as I can tell it would be contrary to the ELT manufacturer's installation instructions and the linked AC seems to state that if one does that it is no longer a minor mod. There's a DG TN about 406's but it's not available online so I don't know what's in it.

First just a nitpick, an minor alteration does not need to utilize approved data, it may utilize acceptable data or be performed by elementary operations. There is clearly some gray area here. But to your point, maybe in say a silly case I could imagine an FAA inspector measuring an ELT ground plane and saying you made this 8 inches when the installation manual says it should be a minimum of 12 inches might cause a problem, but I'd hope everybody has better things to worry about that things like that.

I doubt any ELT manufacturer has really looked at what would be needed to get a really good practical ELT install in a glider, let alone wrote this up, there is just no market for them. Several glider manufactures have different documentation that mentions installing ELTs (sometimes just in the pilot/maintenance manuals), most are brief and mostly useless. e.g. Schleicher just says it's possible to install an ELT antenna in my ASK-26E in the luggage space extending into the canopy area.... ah right, totally impractical/useless. I don't know how much effort DG put into theirs, but it sounds at least like more than typical.

I don't understand the reference to "non-metal" part, a pure fiberglass fuselage might in some cases provide be an easier option as you might be able to install an anteena inside the fueslage, but given antenna lenths and desire to keep it away from conductive parts etc. even that may be hard.

Are you really willing to drill a hole in the upper fuselage on any metal or carbon fiber fuselage glider and bung an big ELT antenna there? Most glider owners are not. Which at an extreme results in things like ELT antenna installed somewhere inside the cockpit, or bent under the RF transparent area of a turtledeck etc. often not ideal. Sometimes with no ground plane at all. Installs are trade off and hopefully one the owner and A&P is well aware of. And that is all not a bad thing, working to do the best practically to get an ELT installed is likely better than not having an ELT. But with the poor activation results of ELTs (even if optimally installed in a GA airplane) as well as the difficulty isntalling the antenna in most gliders and the confidnce/testability provided by tracking solutions like InReach or Spot I would hope people are looking at ELTs only as a backup to InReach or SPOT devices used for tracking.

I just thin the bureaucratic process is the wrong thing to to think about here. Discuss that with your A&P. Look with them at what antenna installs may be practical and decide whether it is worth doing at all or not. This all needs some common sense applied to trying to install something that hopefully provides some SAR help. There is no regulatory requirement for gliders to carry ELTs, not requirement that any ELT installed in a glider must be TSO approved, installs in practice are usually not done as major alterations, and there are better options than an ELT in the fist place.

If you really wanted to get a 406MHz ELT installed as well as possible in a glider then it may be ugly and expensive. e.g. maybe cutting holes for an external antenna, and installing a ground plane or maybe going to a high-end ELT with dual-outputs and at least trying to do a really good external mount for a single band 406 MHz whip or blade antenna (therefore a short antenna that needs a small ground plane) and then going with a less optimal 121..5 Mhz antenna mounted in the cockpit or external with a sub optimal ground plane etc. It's only the 406 Mhz signal that is used to alert SARSAT/COSPAS. And keep the ELT solidly mounted in the correct orientation and all the coax cables as short/secure as possible. Think about carrying a collapsible portable antennas where you can remove the ELT and place it on the ground with that antenna (good idea if your glider ends up broken/on it's side etc and you are still alive enough to do so.

I had purchased a nice Artex 406 MHz ELT and spent much of a day trying to work out how it could be realistically/well installed in a new ASH-26E. I decided it was impossible and gave up and returned it and purchased a McMurdo 406MHz PLB (with GPS), I also had a SPOT tracker at that time. If doing this today I'd use an InReach (mounted on the glareshield/panel with good sat view) and a 406 Mhz PLB (on parachute harness). That combination is much better than a 406 MHz ELT. And if you bail out it is nice to have a PLB with you not with the glider. But if you also want/can manage some reasonable install of an ELT as backup beyond that then great.

When I specified non-metal I was merely referring to the fact that on a metal airframe you can just install an external antenna and rely on the structure itself being a ground plane. There would be no problem getting a 406 installed on our L23 for example.

I'm not arguing whether the installation of an ELT was worthwhile or not as I believe it is, I just wanted to find out if anyone had any luck finding data to refer to when making out the maintenance release in the logbook for an installation. If so, it would make things a lot easier.

I live in Canada so I'm up against a different agency than you are, though a lot of FAA things are considered acceptable here (the good old AC-43.13 for example). So far as I've been able to determine from Transport Canada, even though the ELT isn't mandatory the installation, if performed on a standard category aircraft has to be done in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, aircraft manufacturer's instructions, AC-43.13 or approved by a DER and subsequently maintained in accordance with the regulations regarding the ELT (regular testing, battery replacement etc.)

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 8:47:08 AM UTC-4, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 12:05:08 AM UTC-5, Bill T wrote:
A SPOT transmits ever 5-10 minutes depending on how the owner sets it up. Even after a crash the spot should keep broadcasting its position. So yes, if moving it can be some distance from its last report, but then the next number of reports will be where the glider is. But someone needs to monitor the spot track or the pilot needs to be registered on the ssa web for spot tracking. Even then, no one may look at it until he is over due coming back. Spot and Delorme can have faster refresh rates.
BillT

A few observations. In a situation like this,SPOT will only broadcast its position if:
1. It is on and in track mode.
2. It is intact after the accident.
3. It can see the sky properly.

Joe did have his SPOT registered on the SSA page. The wonderful Press can't spell his name correctly, so if you looked on the registered trackers with his name spelled that way, you won't find him. And from what has been reported, the accident was within just a few miles of the last SPOT report, even though the previous report was 50 minutes prior to the last report (that whole, seeing the sky thing). There was not a series of reports from the same place, indicating the SPOT did not survive the crash.

Joe was a wonderful man and will be missed. He was a friend of my family for over 40 years. His wife, Jane, passed away a few years ago. One of my all-time favorite Jane and Joe stories was related by Jane of a typical landout. When she arrived with the trailer, Joe said "Oh, thank you again for coming to get me. I am amazed at how quickly you got here...." Then, as soon as the plane was in the trailer and they were in the car, Joe said, "Where is the map? There has to be a faster way back to the airport..."

Godspeed to you, Joe!

Steve Leonard

The new Spot Gen 3 stops broadcasting if it is not moving. This "improvement" was to save battery life.

On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 9:53:13 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
Very sad news. Any details on what happened?

By Journal North Staff
UPDATED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 5:30 pm
PUBLISHED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
SANTA FE -- New Mexico State police have identified the deceased pilot of a downed glider aircraft found Thursday afternoon southeast of Santa Fe in the Lamy area as 72-year-old Joseph Shepard of Illinois.

According to police, the glider was reported missing Wednesday, after it left the Moriarty Municipal Airport. Satellite and cell phone data, along with a sighting by a pilot who'd been following the glider, led authorities to the Lamy area.

Starting early Thursday, crews from New Mexico Search and Rescue, the Civil Air Patrol's New Mexico Wing, the Army National Guard and the U.S. Border Patrol made searches on the ground and from the air. At about 3 p.m., wreckage was found and confirmed as the missing glider.

The Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the cause of the crash.

Is there any new information on the crash?

Dennis

Dennis - The prelim NTSB report is out there, but says very little. I am based at Moriarty and there really is little information available. I do believe we will all have to wait for the final NTSB report to come out (in a year or so?) before we learn more.
Thx - Renny

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 8:17:37 AM UTC-6, HGXC wrote:
On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 9:53:13 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
Very sad news. Any details on what happened?

By Journal North Staff
UPDATED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 5:30 pm
PUBLISHED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
SANTA FE -- New Mexico State police have identified the deceased pilot of a downed glider aircraft found Thursday afternoon southeast of Santa Fe in the Lamy area as 72-year-old Joseph Shepard of Illinois.

According to police, the glider was reported missing Wednesday, after it left the Moriarty Municipal Airport. Satellite and cell phone data, along with a sighting by a pilot who'd been following the glider, led authorities to the Lamy area.

Starting early Thursday, crews from New Mexico Search and Rescue, the Civil Air Patrol's New Mexico Wing, the Army National Guard and the U.S. Border Patrol made searches on the ground and from the air. At about 3 p.m., wreckage was found and confirmed as the missing glider.

The Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the cause of the crash.

Is there any new information on the crash?

Dennis