Glider crash at Moriarty

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
snip

Common practice these days is to mount Spot on ones parachute. snip

Consider the searcher's paradox when a downed pilot uses a Spot which is not transmitting reliably. Searchers will sensibly examine ones past Spot unit performance. If they see that it is not uncommon that your Spot unit misses two or more 5 minute transmits in a row, then the search area becomes something like a 15 minute assumption; that would be like a 25 mile search radius which equals 1900 sq miles. You may never be found. Spot owners should consider this trade-off carefully. My own opinion is that it is much better to have reliable tracking operation than it is to have the unit attached to my parachute.

snip

Thanks Steve,

I tend to prefer to mount my spot on my instrument panel rather than my parachute, in part because I still use the old larger SPOT 1 which is a bit bulky on the parachute, but also because I like the more reliable tracking when it is mounted on the panel.

Also one needs to be careful when evaluating the reliability of the new spots as they will back fill the past few points if it misses them. Meaning that it may appear to be updating more reliably(often) than it is.

Brian

I am saddened for our loss of Joe, I met him a few years ago as a scorer at a SCOH contest, very nice gentleman.

As for spot vs Delorme or other means of location ID, I have an original Spot and it has great reception on my parachute left shoulder. Cost is my main reason for not changing.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:37:26 -0700, cliffhilty wrote:

I am saddened for our loss of Joe, I met him a few years ago as a scorer
at a SCOH contest, very nice gentleman.

As for spot vs Delorme or other means of location ID, I have an original
Spot and it has great reception on my parachute left shoulder. Cost is
my main reason for not changing.

I still use a Spot Connect on the parachute strap, it seems reliable in
transmitting points. If there's an option for faster than 10 minute
resolution, I haven't found it. Unfortunately, to turn on tracking, you
need data on your phone, which occasionally is quite inconvenient.
Stupid design. Probably time to upgrade to something better.

In the Stu Kissel crash, CAP put out a nice press release taking credit
for the find. Let's just say it was found in spite of CAP, certainly not
because of them.


On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:16:32 -0700, howard banks wrote:

To reinforce what Mike the Strike says, the CAP report says that some
of the wreckage is "miles" away from the main site. Mmmm. The CAP
claims total responsibility for finding anything too. Double mmmm.
Our hope is that the loss of Joe will not be in vain and that some
system to use existing electronics to locate downed gliders will be
devised. Please let us concentrate on that and not speculate on what
happened.


On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 7:53:13 PM UTC-6, Tim Taylor wrote:
Very sad news. Any details on what happened?

By Journal North Staff UPDATED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 5:30 pm
PUBLISHED: Friday, June 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm SANTA FE -- New Mexico State
police have identified the deceased pilot of a downed glider aircraft
found Thursday afternoon southeast of Santa Fe in the Lamy area as
72-year-old Joseph Shepard of Illinois.

According to police, the glider was reported missing Wednesday, after
it left the Moriarty Municipal Airport. Satellite and cell phone data,
along with a sighting by a pilot who'd been following the glider, led
authorities to the Lamy area.

Starting early Thursday, crews from New Mexico Search and Rescue, the
Civil Air Patrol's New Mexico Wing, the Army National Guard and the
U.S. Border Patrol made searches on the ground and from the air. At
about 3 p.m., wreckage was found and confirmed as the missing glider.

The Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the cause of the
crash.

There are multiple advantages on strapping the spot to your parachute rather than attaching to the glider. Not only you will have it with you if you bail out, but also in a crash it will be easier to activate the sos button when it is near you. I did some test early on and found no disadvantage when strapping to my parachute. In a reclined position it is 45 degrees which is good enough. I urge everyone to strap spot/InReach to their parachute.
I think this unfortunate accident proves how well our electronics improve the chances to be found quickly. Without it, it could have taken weeks or months to find Joe, not 24 hours. I don't know if it was flarm or spot which pinpoint his location, but I think it did great job. Of course there is room to improvement, such as InReach , but we are already ahead of the airline industry which still can't find MH370 after more than a year.
My condolences to Joe's family and friends.

Ramy

Yes, condolences to all who knew Joe. Though I did not know him, I feel
the loss whenever one of our own passes on.

I carry my Spot on the chest strap of my parachute out of the inability
to attach it to one of the shoulder straps due to the short length of
the mounting clip. My PLB attaches nicely to the right shoulder. If I
should some day need to depart my aircraft, and am successful, I'll have
good resources to be located. Those plus my cell attached to my belt.
At least one of them should remain with me all the way to the ground.

On 6/9/2015 8:39 AM, Ramy wrote:
There are multiple advantages on strapping the spot to your parachute rather than attaching to the glider. Not only you will have it with you if you bail out, but also in a crash it will be easier to activate the sos button when it is near you. I did some test early on and found no disadvantage when strapping to my parachute. In a reclined position it is 45 degrees which is good enough. I urge everyone to strap spot/InReach to their parachute.
I think this unfortunate accident proves how well our electronics improve the chances to be found quickly. Without it, it could have taken weeks or months to find Joe, not 24 hours. I don't know if it was flarm or spot which pinpoint his location, but I think it did great job. Of course there is room to improvement, such as InReach , but we are already ahead of the airline industry which still can't find MH370 after more than a year.
My condolences to Joe's family and friends.

Ramy

--
Dan Marotta

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 11:18:14 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, condolences to all who knew Joe.* Though I did not know him, I
feel the loss whenever one of our own passes on.



I carry my Spot on the chest strap of my parachute out of the
inability to attach it to one of the shoulder straps due to the
short length of the mounting clip.* My PLB attaches nicely to the
right shoulder.* If I should some day need to depart my aircraft,
and am successful, I'll have good resources to be located.* Those
plus my cell attached to my belt.* At least one of them should
remain with me all the way to the ground.




On 6/9/2015 8:39 AM, Ramy wrote:



There are multiple advantages on strapping the spot to your parachute rather than attaching to the glider. Not only you will have it with you if you bail out, but also in a crash it will be easier to activate the sos button when it is near you. I did some test early on and found no disadvantage when strapping to my parachute. In a reclined position it is 45 degrees which is good enough. I urge everyone to strap spot/InReach to their parachute.
I think this unfortunate accident proves how well our electronics improve the chances to be found quickly. Without it, it could have taken weeks or months to find Joe, not 24 hours. I don't know if it was flarm or spot which pinpoint his location, but I think it did great job. Of course there is room to improvement, such as InReach , but we are already ahead of the airline industry which still can't find MH370 after more than a year.
My condolences to Joe's family and friends.

Ramy





--

Dan Marotta

A jump instructor friend of mine cautioned that having too many things attached to the top end of the parachute webbing is a recipe for hiding the one thing that matters when you're under the gun, and that's the ripcord. I have my PLB attached to the thigh straps. My phone is in my pants pocket (which is synched shut by the thigh straps). Right now I have my Delorme Inreach clipped into the pocket of my flying shirt (Columbia fishing shirt)..

Interested if anyone agrees or disagrees with the jump instructor's comment..

P3

It is always sad to hear of such a loss.
But in my opinion, we yet have little idea about nor do we achieve much speculating on the cause of Joe's accident.
Compared to the loss of Steve Fossett and many others, the search for Joe took very little time. Steve was using an ELT, Joe had modern tracking devices. We wish they were all still with us, but at least for Joe it was no longer a mystery for friends and family.
From personal experience with SPOT1, SPOT2, InReach and APRS, InReach SE works well on the parachute harness. SPOT works but just doesn't compare. APRS works well in the baggage compartment, even using a horizontal "stubby" antenna surrounded by a mostly carbon fuselage. No unit is absolutely perfect, but nor is cellular data, FLARM, many pilot's vision/scan, etc.
Any parachute rigger can construct a SPOT or InReach pouch and a hard point on the riser cover of a parachute harness that will not interfere with finding the ripcord or parachute deployment. The cost for those is only about $50, so no need to improvise/compromise.
In the big picture, InReach is not expensive. As mentioned earlier, the amateur radio license is easy to get too.
Jim

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 7:52:36 AM UTC-4, David Kinsell wrote:
In the Stu Kissel crash, CAP put out a nice press release taking credit
for the find. Let's just say it was found in spite of CAP, certainly not
because of them.

Well since we all to some extent depend on CAP for SAR, is there any chance that CAP training/procedures might be improved based on this incident? Does anyone at CAP recognize the press release as inappropriately self-congratulatory, or are they clueless?

Is the problem that CAP lacks knowledge of glider flight practices and how to use things like Powerflarm data to find downed aircraft? That seems fixable.

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:03:39 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 11:18:14 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, condolences to all who knew Joe.* Though I did not know him, I
feel the loss whenever one of our own passes on.



I carry my Spot on the chest strap of my parachute out of the
inability to attach it to one of the shoulder straps due to the
short length of the mounting clip.* My PLB attaches nicely to the
right shoulder.* If I should some day need to depart my aircraft,
and am successful, I'll have good resources to be located.* Those
plus my cell attached to my belt.* At least one of them should
remain with me all the way to the ground.




On 6/9/2015 8:39 AM, Ramy wrote:



There are multiple advantages on strapping the spot to your parachute rather than attaching to the glider. Not only you will have it with you if you bail out, but also in a crash it will be easier to activate the sos button when it is near you. I did some test early on and found no disadvantage when strapping to my parachute. In a reclined position it is 45 degrees which is good enough. I urge everyone to strap spot/InReach to their parachute.
I think this unfortunate accident proves how well our electronics improve the chances to be found quickly. Without it, it could have taken weeks or months to find Joe, not 24 hours. I don't know if it was flarm or spot which pinpoint his location, but I think it did great job. Of course there is room to improvement, such as InReach , but we are already ahead of the airline industry which still can't find MH370 after more than a year.
My condolences to Joe's family and friends.

Ramy





--

Dan Marotta

A jump instructor friend of mine cautioned that having too many things attached to the top end of the parachute webbing is a recipe for hiding the one thing that matters when you're under the gun, and that's the ripcord. I have my PLB attached to the thigh straps. My phone is in my pants pocket (which is synched shut by the thigh straps). Right now I have my Delorme Inreach clipped into the pocket of my flying shirt (Columbia fishing shirt).

Interested if anyone agrees or disagrees with the jump instructor's comment.

P3

I think your jump instructor friend has a good point!

I wear my spot 2 on the chest strap of my parachute, where it isn't in the way of anything and it doesn't drop fixes any more than it would on the glare shield. This seems like the best overall compromise. Phone goes in a pocket with some sort of positive closure (zipper, etc.).

Unfortunately, the weakest component of our in flight tracking capability seems to be the SSA/glide port aero tracker....

-Evan Ludeman / T8