Tomahawk/ Skipper

That problem was fixed rather quickly. But it really should
never have happened. The FAA has Part 39 rules for
Airworthiness Directives, laws that require fixes. You can
find ADs for any airplane at the FAA web site
here
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...e?OpenFrameSet


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"W P Dixon" wrote in
message ...
| Fellow on ebay was auctioning off some flight time in a
Tomahawk. I like the
| way the Tomahawks and Skippers look . Thought it might be
fun to fly one
| before I get my SP cert. Use it to get some controlled
airspace time in.
| Thanks to everyone for all the info. Most definitely gets
your attention if
| your control falls apart in your hand! WOW talk about a
bad feeling!
|
| Patrick
| student SP
| aircraft structural mech
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:MS7ef.1147$QW2.4@dukeread08...
| If I had won the big lottery a few weeks ago, my
personal
| flight department would be these airplanes...
| A Beechjet 400A (now called a Hawker 400) since I am
already
| typed in it.
| A Beech 1900 to carry my Harleys around to Sturgis(typed
in
| that too.)
| A Helio Courier on floats
| A Legacy Cub
| A G36 Bonanza
| A Pitts S2
| A Skipper with a big engine
| A Duchess with two bigger engines and floats
|
| And I'd build a 50% scale A10 with a 7.63 minigun in the
| nose.
|
| BTW, the TBM700 was the Mooney 301, I was there for the
| first public flight at Kerrville. Nice airplane.
|
| I liked the report about the student who had the control
| wheel break in his hand and then the CFI took control
and
| his wheel broke too. Many CFIs took to carrying
ViseGrip
| pliers to use as an emergency handle. The PA38 was an
| adventure.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
| --
| The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| some support
| http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
|
|
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| | When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and
put
| an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop.
| |
| | You need to raise your sights a bit, Jim - MY "lottery
| plane" is a
| | TBM700C2, but then again, to each his own... : )
| |
| | Having learned in a Traumahawk 10 years ago, I can
| personally attest to
| | the low power and VERY study undercarraige, as there
were
| quite a few
| | carrier landings those planes survived courtesy of
yours
| truly. It
| | wasn't until after I finished the PPL that I started
| reading about the
| | stall/spin accidents in the PA-38. Yikes.
| |
|
|
|

Never flew the Skipper, but had some time in the Traumahawk. Two things
that I remember besides being horribly underpowered was my instructor
repeatedly warning me about secondary stalls in one and accelerated
stalls at high bank angles. From what I can remember from his warnings
is that the Trauma when it enters the secondary stall, becomes overly
sensitive to having a wing down and when the stall breaks, it
definately wanted to go on it's back and spin. At that point and when
you had an accelerated stall at at large bank angle, the tail would
start to waggle pretty hard and if you were looking at the correct
time, you would catch seeing the fin twist a considerable amount of
distance off of the centerline of the aircraft.

I will say that it had pretty robust gear for a light trainer. We got a
new one in from the east coast for our school and discovered after it
was there and in the shop for an inspection that the a/c had been
landed so hard that the tires left skidmarks on the bottoms of the
wings. Wasn't until after that that you could visually notice that it
had suffered a severely hard landing and bent the gear.

After flying one for about 10 hours I moved on up to a Warrior since it
had air conditioning and was only 10$ an hour more at that time.

Craig C.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in news:MS7ef.1147
$QW2.4@dukeread08:

If I had won the big lottery a few weeks ago, my personal
flight department would be these airplanes...
A Beechjet 400A (now called a Hawker 400) since I am already
typed in it.
A Beech 1900 to carry my Harleys around to Sturgis(typed in
Snipola

What? Don't have a leather butt?

BTW, whatchya got? I have an '86 Sporster 883. Admitedly
not the bike for a long haul ride.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com & newsfeeds.com posts

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does
anyone have experience in both to compare the two?

--
Patrick Dixon
student SP
aircraft structural mech

A flight school in my area had one of each for a while. Later, they sold the
Skipper and bought a second Tomahawk.

My experience is in the Tomahawk. I owned one and have about 300 hours in
it. I thought it was a great little airplane. Certainly, the performance
was limited, but any two seat trainer has limited performance. If I was
looking for an inexpensive aircraft for ~$20k, it would be my fist choice.

Someone brought up the wing's lifespan limit. Oh the joys of being certified
in the modern era where all aircraft have life limits. There is an STC to
extend the life of the T-hawk's wing, by the way..

I found the aircraft a delight to fly. No unpredictable behavior, but if you
do stall it, it will drop a wing, unlike a C-15X, which usually stalls
straight ahead as long as the ball is more or less centered.

One of the real advantages of the T-hawk is that it has the biggest cabin in
the class. Several inches wider and taller than the Cessnas, and bigger than
a Skipper or AA-1 as well. It makes a difference if you're going X/C...

KB

Well I guess that explains the nickname Traumahawk! Shame to, it is a good
looking little bird IMO. Probably won't ever see a T-hawk II ..improved
version

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

wrote in message
oups.com...
Never flew the Skipper, but had some time in the Traumahawk. Two things
that I remember besides being horribly underpowered was my instructor
repeatedly warning me about secondary stalls in one and accelerated
stalls at high bank angles. From what I can remember from his warnings
is that the Trauma when it enters the secondary stall, becomes overly
sensitive to having a wing down and when the stall breaks, it
definately wanted to go on it's back and spin. At that point and when
you had an accelerated stall at at large bank angle, the tail would
start to waggle pretty hard and if you were looking at the correct
time, you would catch seeing the fin twist a considerable amount of
distance off of the centerline of the aircraft.

I will say that it had pretty robust gear for a light trainer. We got a
new one in from the east coast for our school and discovered after it
was there and in the shop for an inspection that the a/c had been
landed so hard that the tires left skidmarks on the bottoms of the
wings. Wasn't until after that that you could visually notice that it
had suffered a severely hard landing and bent the gear.

After flying one for about 10 hours I moved on up to a Warrior since it
had air conditioning and was only 10$ an hour more at that time.

Craig C.

Right now I'm walking, but when the lottery comes through,
I'll get an XL1200R and maybe a V-Rod with mid-mount
controls. Hey, I think arriving with the bike in an
airplane would be cool. Maybe land in town and taxi down
main street.

No roids, just old.


"Skywise" wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in news:MS7ef.1147
| $QW2.4@dukeread08:
|
| If I had won the big lottery a few weeks ago, my
personal
| flight department would be these airplanes...
| A Beechjet 400A (now called a Hawker 400) since I am
already
| typed in it.
| A Beech 1900 to carry my Harleys around to Sturgis(typed
in
| Snipola
|
| What? Don't have a leather butt?
|
| BTW, whatchya got? I have an '86 Sporster 883. Admitedly
| not the bike for a long haul ride.
|
| Brian
| --
| http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy,
Skepticism
| Seismic FAQ:
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
| Quake "predictions":
http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
| Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
| Supernews sucks - blocking google, usenet.com &
newsfeeds.com posts

I've never flown one but I will say I have noticed their cost. Seem to be
easily obtainable from 16-20G . I may have to do alittle checking into the
wing problem. Can the wing be rebuilt, or does it have to be red tagged
after those hours? Rebuilding a wing is alot of fun, for me anyhow, if that
was allowable?

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does
anyone have experience in both to compare the two?

--
Patrick Dixon
student SP
aircraft structural mech

A flight school in my area had one of each for a while. Later, they sold
the Skipper and bought a second Tomahawk.

My experience is in the Tomahawk. I owned one and have about 300 hours in
it. I thought it was a great little airplane. Certainly, the performance
was limited, but any two seat trainer has limited performance. If I was
looking for an inexpensive aircraft for ~$20k, it would be my fist choice.

Someone brought up the wing's lifespan limit. Oh the joys of being
certified in the modern era where all aircraft have life limits. There is
an STC to extend the life of the T-hawk's wing, by the way..

I found the aircraft a delight to fly. No unpredictable behavior, but if
you do stall it, it will drop a wing, unlike a C-15X, which usually stalls
straight ahead as long as the ball is more or less centered.

One of the real advantages of the T-hawk is that it has the biggest cabin
in the class. Several inches wider and taller than the Cessnas, and bigger
than a Skipper or AA-1 as well. It makes a difference if you're going
X/C...

KB

In article ,
says...


These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does
anyone have experience in both to compare the two?



The Beech Skipper, in an unpretentious way, is a fine little airplane. It
has an excellent reputation. They seem to have gotten everything "just
right". The Tomahawk, sadly, is not a fine little airplane. It's crappy.
I'm sorry, but everything is wrong with this plane. The wing structure
has a definite design limitation - after the plane has flown a certain
number of hours, you just trash it like a beer can. I'm sorry to be
denigrating - I know there are people who have them and love them, and
even more who trained in them and have fond memories - but IMO it's not a
successful design, and not really very safe.

GF

"G Farris" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does
anyone have experience in both to compare the two?



The Beech Skipper, in an unpretentious way, is a fine little airplane. It
has an excellent reputation. They seem to have gotten everything "just
right". The Tomahawk, sadly, is not a fine little airplane. It's crappy.
I'm sorry, but everything is wrong with this plane. The wing structure
has a definite design limitation - after the plane has flown a certain
number of hours, you just trash it like a beer can. I'm sorry to be
denigrating - I know there are people who have them and love them, and
even more who trained in them and have fond memories - but IMO it's not a
successful design, and not really very safe.

GF

My understanding is that all aircraft certified under the current rules have
life limits. IIRC, the new certification rules began around 1973, but that's
a pretty fuzzy recollection. Notice that the Cirrus has a life limit?

Most GA designs predate the new certification requirements.

KB

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
I've never flown one but I will say I have noticed their cost. Seem to be
easily obtainable from 16-20G . I may have to do alittle checking into the
wing problem. Can the wing be rebuilt, or does it have to be red tagged
after those hours? Rebuilding a wing is alot of fun, for me anyhow, if
that was allowable?

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

Of course you could remanufacture a wing. However, IIRC the life limit is
well over 10k hours, and there are plenty of 3,000 to 4,000 hour Tomahawks
out there. It might not be worth the time and expense right now...

KB