Not Particularly Impressed with Tuskegee Airmen Propaganda.

The Squadron was particularly effective at a time when being judged by merit
was apparently not common and for this its men deserve great honor.

However the reason the Trugegee Airmen worked, indeed the reason integration
has not degraded the effectiveness of the US military is this: Selection
on the basis of merit and IQ tests. They were an elite. Methods both made
illegal under affirmative action in the civilian world in a Landmark case
involving the Duke Power Company who wanted to eliminate the possibility of
racial discrimination by using written tests and IQ tests devoid of bias as
much as possible.

That's the sub text of what I think when I here someone lauding the Tusgegee
Airmen. They are lauding and proving the effectveness of IQ and 100% merit
based tests.

I guess you are lucky if you are judged on merit.

"The Enlightenment" wrote in
:

The Squadron was particularly effective at a time when being judged by
merit was apparently not common and for this its men deserve great
honor.

However the reason the Trugegee Airmen worked, indeed the reason
integration has not degraded the effectiveness of the US military is
this: Selection on the basis of merit and IQ tests. They were an
elite. Methods both made illegal under affirmative action in the
civilian world in a Landmark case involving the Duke Power Company who
wanted to eliminate the possibility of racial discrimination by using
written tests and IQ tests devoid of bias as much as possible.

That's the sub text of what I think when I here someone lauding the
Tusgegee Airmen. They are lauding and proving the effectveness of IQ
and 100% merit based tests.

I guess you are lucky if you are judged on merit.

And how much personal experience do YOU have with the military? I've been
an active or full-time Reserve airman for 8 years now. I can tell you
that affirmative action has nothing at all to do with what positions
blacks hold in the military (or at least the Air Force). Those who have
advanced through the ranks have almost certainly earned the privilege to
have been promoted to whatever their rank may be.

Since you mention written tests, however, active duty airmen (E-4 and up)
have to take 2 written tests each cycle, if eligible for promotion (based
on Time In Grade requirements), to attempt to get themselves promoted to
the next rank - one the Skills Knowledge Test (SKT) and the Performance
Fitness Exam??? (PFE). Both factor heavily into scores used in
determining who gets a "line number" for the next rank and who doesn't.
Many who DO get line numbers are black or otherwise non-white.

So take your ignorant, racist BS somewhere else. Or better yet, grow up
and learn to accept the fact there really are many decent, respectable,
and even smart minorities out there.

"Jughead" wrote in message
.21...

And how much personal experience do YOU have with the military? I've been
an active or full-time Reserve airman for 8 years now. I can tell you
that affirmative action has nothing at all to do with what positions
blacks hold in the military (or at least the Air Force). Those who have
advanced through the ranks have almost certainly earned the privilege to
have been promoted to whatever their rank may be.

Since you mention written tests, however, active duty airmen (E-4 and up)
have to take 2 written tests each cycle, if eligible for promotion (based
on Time In Grade requirements), to attempt to get themselves promoted to
the next rank - one the Skills Knowledge Test (SKT) and the Performance
Fitness Exam??? (PFE). Both factor heavily into scores used in
determining who gets a "line number" for the next rank and who doesn't.
Many who DO get line numbers are black or otherwise non-white.

So take your ignorant, racist BS somewhere else. Or better yet, grow up
and learn to accept the fact there really are many decent, respectable,
and even smart minorities out there.


Why don't you read his message again?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
rthlink.net:


"Jughead" wrote in message
.21...

And how much personal experience do YOU have with the military? I've
been an active or full-time Reserve airman for 8 years now. I can
tell you that affirmative action has nothing at all to do with what
positions blacks hold in the military (or at least the Air Force).
Those who have advanced through the ranks have almost certainly
earned the privilege to have been promoted to whatever their rank may
be.

Since you mention written tests, however, active duty airmen (E-4 and
up) have to take 2 written tests each cycle, if eligible for
promotion (based on Time In Grade requirements), to attempt to get
themselves promoted to the next rank - one the Skills Knowledge Test
(SKT) and the Performance Fitness Exam??? (PFE). Both factor heavily
into scores used in determining who gets a "line number" for the next
rank and who doesn't. Many who DO get line numbers are black or
otherwise non-white.

So take your ignorant, racist BS somewhere else. Or better yet, grow
up and learn to accept the fact there really are many decent,
respectable, and even smart minorities out there.


Why don't you read his message again?

I read it several times. Am I confused with what he's getting at or are
you the one who's confused? I interpreted his post as being anti-
affirmative action (which I'm completely against myself), but done so in
what I perceived as a racist tone. ????? What did you take the post to
mean?

"Jughead" wrote in message
.11...

I read it several times. Am I confused with what he's getting at or are
you the one who's confused? I interpreted his post as being anti-
affirmative action (which I'm completely against myself), but done so in
what I perceived as a racist tone. ????? What did you take the post to
mean?


I believe you are the one confused. I find nothing in the message racist in
tone.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote

"Jughead" wrote in message
.11...

I read it several times. Am I confused with what he's getting at or are
you the one who's confused? I interpreted his post as being anti-
affirmative action (which I'm completely against myself), but done so in
what I perceived as a racist tone. ????? What did you take the post
to
mean?


I believe you are the one confused. I find nothing in the message racist
in
tone.

I did.

Read into it a little.
"However the reason the Trugegee Airmen worked, indeed the reason
integration
has not degraded the effectiveness of the US military is this: Selection
on the basis of merit and IQ tests. "

Or,
"Had integration not been based on merit and IQ, US military effectiveness
would have been degraded."
While this may be true, it is also true of anyone selected for pilot
training, be they white, black, or green with pink polka dots.

Pete
[disclaimer: both my father and my uncle were TA pilots]

"Pete" wrote in message
...

I did.

Read into it a little.
"However the reason the Trugegee Airmen worked, indeed the reason
integration
has not degraded the effectiveness of the US military is this: Selection
on the basis of merit and IQ tests. "

Or,
"Had integration not been based on merit and IQ, US military effectiveness
would have been degraded."
While this may be true, it is also true of anyone selected for pilot
training, be they white, black, or green with pink polka dots.


You're reading things into it that simply are not there.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Pete" wrote in message
...

I did.

Read into it a little.
"However the reason the Trugegee Airmen worked, indeed the reason
integration
has not degraded the effectiveness of the US military is this: Selection
on the basis of merit and IQ tests. "

Or,
"Had integration not been based on merit and IQ, US military effectiveness
would have been degraded."
While this may be true, it is also true of anyone selected for pilot
training, be they white, black, or green with pink polka dots.


You're reading things into it that simply are not there.

If you will accept a comment from someone on the outside of this discussion, I
read the original posting a couple of times, and found it to be somewhat
tortured verbiage and unclear as to its meaning, at best. Under the
circumstances, unless the original poster wants to restate his views or
positions in a clearer fashion, it might be best to abandon the dispute before
it evolves into one of those "did not, did too" schoolyard exchanges that go
nowhere.

George Z.

"Gooneybird" wrote in
:

If you will accept a comment from someone on the outside of this
discussion, I read the original posting a couple of times, and found
it to be somewhat tortured verbiage and unclear as to its meaning, at
best. Under the circumstances, unless the original poster wants to
restate his views or positions in a clearer fashion, it might be best
to abandon the dispute before it evolves into one of those "did not,
did too" schoolyard exchanges that go nowhere.

Comment accepted, and I certainly agree, which is exactly what I intend to
do now.

"Jughead" wrote in message Comment accepted, and I certainly agree, which
is exactly what I intend to
do now.

Thank you "Uncle Tom!!"