Instrument Approaches and procedure turns....

I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice. Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going downhill).

Bob Gardner

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious)

It should be but you're a student so it's OK

I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:26:01 GMT, "Cecil E. Chapman"
wrote:

I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

I don't have that one available, but "in general" you fly past the IAF
for about 1 minute, make you 45, fly one minute, and turn back in to
intercept the inbound course.

The main requirements are to make the turn on the proper side in the
proper direction (indicated by the barb) and usually stay within 10
miles of some specified location. It will say where on the approach
chart and the distance will be given.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Thanks in advance!

--

Bob, sorry to ask another different question, but I saw your communication
software in my local airport shop and wanted to know if it covers IFR
communication practice as well as the VFR (which I already have)? If so, it
is quite a bargain, 'cause another software company charges separate price
for each version.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice. Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going
downhill).

Bob Gardner

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before
my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually
is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the
location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
...
If you look at the approach plate for KWVI/WVI LOC Rwy 2, there is no
requirement for DME. All that's there is a localizer (without glide
slope -

Actually, there is Cecil, according to the "DME or RADAR required" note in
the top right of the chart..
The reason they want you on radar or to have DME is to keep you inside the
10NM ring for the missed approach. Just outside the ring is something just
over 4000 feet due north of the airport.



making the approach non-precision) and a NDB which isn't even part of this
approach procedure (there is a separate NDB approach for the same runway,
though).

Thanks for the clarification on the feeder route. By the way isn't this
approach an example where the initial approach fix and the FAF are one and
the same?

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should
be
obvious)

It should be but you're a student so it's OK

I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it
actually
is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly
up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the
location
of the procedure turn sits?

Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

"Brad Z" wrote in message
news:baw7b.297942$cF.92189@rwcrnsc53...

Actually, there is Cecil, according to the "DME or RADAR required" note in
the top right of the chart..
The reason they want you on radar or to have DME is to keep you inside the
10NM ring for the missed approach. Just outside the ring is something
just
over 4000 feet due north of the airport.


But the missed approach procedure takes you outside the 10 mile ring.

Michael wrote:
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious)


It should be but you're a student so it's OK


I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?


Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

The July IFR magazine has an article featuring that approach. The
IFR staff couldn't figure out why DME was required so they called
the FAA. They didn't know either, and said they will fix the chart.

Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

YIKES! I didn't see that... This leads to another question. I thought
that if an item of equipment was required that it appeared as part of the
approach plate description, such as; LOC DME 29 ????

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Brad Z" wrote in message
news:baw7b.297942$cF.92189@rwcrnsc53...

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
...
If you look at the approach plate for KWVI/WVI LOC Rwy 2, there is no
requirement for DME. All that's there is a localizer (without glide
slope -

Actually, there is Cecil, according to the "DME or RADAR required" note in
the top right of the chart..
The reason they want you on radar or to have DME is to keep you inside the
10NM ring for the missed approach. Just outside the ring is something
just
over 4000 feet due north of the airport.



making the approach non-precision) and a NDB which isn't even part of
this
approach procedure (there is a separate NDB approach for the same
runway,
though).

Thanks for the clarification on the feeder route. By the way isn't this
approach an example where the initial approach fix and the FAF are one
and
the same?

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that
should
be
obvious)

It should be but you're a student so it's OK

I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it
actually
is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly
up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the
location
of the procedure turn sits?

Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

The July IFR magazine has an article featuring that approach. The
IFR staff couldn't figure out why DME was required so they called
the FAA. They didn't know either, and said they will fix the chart.

Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

Nor could I,,,, thanks for the clarification!!!!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com