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What F-102 units were called up for Viet Nam



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 7th 03, 03:23 PM
Peter Stickney
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In article ,
"Tex Houston" writes:

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
F-102s showed up in Thailand and Viet Nam from before the beginning,
as it were.

In August, 1961, 4 F-102As from the 509th FIS, Clark AB, Pi deployed
to Don Muang Airport, outside of Bankok for air defence duties,
apparently as part of Project Bell Tone.



My source shows this took place in April 1961.


The early '60s period of our involmement in this area was, shall we
say, a bit turbid, but here's what I have on Bell Tone, which isn't
much.
The initial BellTone deployment was 6 F-100s from the 510th TFS/405th
FW from Clark AB, from April - August '61. They were relieved by the
4 F-102s from the 509th FIS/405th FW in August, closing shop sometime
in early '62.

Or so says my somewhat tattered photocopy of "Combat Wings of the Air
Force"

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
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  #22  
Old September 7th 03, 03:42 PM
Mike Marron
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Jim Thomas wrote:

No, I left Udorn in November 1967.


You didn't by chance, know a Capt. Bob "Best of the Bad Guys"
Marron (my Dad) while stationed at Udorn?

-Mike Marron



  #23  
Old September 7th 03, 04:07 PM
Kevin Brooks
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Scott Peterson wrote in message ...
"Harley W. Daugehrty" wrote:

If I remember correctly the F-102 was not exactly a "safe" aircraft, it was
a rather of a challenge to fly and its mission profile in a nuclear exchange
was not desirable at all.


May be, but by the 1970's that was all in the past. Patrolling over
the Gulf of Mexico for waves of bombers from Cuba was hardly the stuff
of legend.


Huh? You are aware that the Cold War was still alive and well through
the *eighties*? And that despite the fact that the TXANG units were
based in Texas, they could have been assigned air defense duties
*anywhere*? The situation today is not all that different (except that
today's threat is unlikely to shoot back), with ANG fighters flying AD
missions from detached locations on a routine basis. You may not like
GWB, but attacking the service of the F-102 pilots who did their duty
*wherever* it occured is not gaining you very much.

Brooks


To everyone else who did correct me about the use of the F-102 in SEA,
thank for the information.



Scott Peterson


Seen it all, done it all,
can't remember most of it.

  #24  
Old September 7th 03, 06:43 PM
Tex Houston
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"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tex Houston" writes:

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
F-102s showed up in Thailand and Viet Nam from before the beginning,
as it were.

In August, 1961, 4 F-102As from the 509th FIS, Clark AB, Pi deployed
to Don Muang Airport, outside of Bankok for air defence duties,
apparently as part of Project Bell Tone.



My source shows this took place in April 1961.


The early '60s period of our involmement in this area was, shall we
say, a bit turbid, but here's what I have on Bell Tone, which isn't
much.
The initial BellTone deployment was 6 F-100s from the 510th TFS/405th
FW from Clark AB, from April - August '61. They were relieved by the
4 F-102s from the 509th FIS/405th FW in August, closing shop sometime
in early '62.

Or so says my somewhat tattered photocopy of "Combat Wings of the Air
Force"

--
Pete Stickney


Probably never know which is correct but I'm using Appendix I "Growth of
Major United States Air Force and Vietnamese Air Force Units to February
1965" from the book The United States Air Force iIn Southeast Asia...The
Advisory Years To 1965" published by Office of Air Force History, United
States Air Force, 1981.

This particular movement is not in the Table of Units: Vietnam, 1954-1964
contained in Vic Flintham's "Air Wars and Aircraft...A detailed Record of
Air Combat, 1945 to the Present" 1990.

Tex Houston



  #25  
Old September 7th 03, 10:43 PM
av8r
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Hi Peter

The first operational deployment to Viet by F-102's was actually on the
21st of March 1962. Deuces of the 509th FIS deployed to Tan Son Nhut.
They returned 8 days later on the 29th. For the next year during Water
Glass ops, they rotated every six weeks with U.S. Navy AD5Q's.

Project Bell Tone 1 commenced in December 1960 with six F-100D's of the
510th TFS were deployed to Don Muang Airport. They were replaced by six
F-102A's of the 509th FIS nine months later.


Peter, let's keep this thread going if possible. It's extremely
interesting. Are you interested in F-102 losses in country?

I used to love watching the F-102's of the 59th FIS roaring around while
I was at Goose Bay, Labrador (June 64-June 67). The odd time a Deuce of
the 57th FIS would come down from Kef for a visit. Lots of good Bear
hunting back in those days too.


Cheers...Chris

  #26  
Old September 8th 03, 03:59 AM
Kevin Brooks
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"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...
In message , Frank Vaughan
writes
Could you go into greater detail on this? The 2.75" FFAR was an
unguided rocket munition. How would the F-102 IR ball come into
play?


At a guess... Find an IR source (running engine, camp fire, etc.) with
the IR sensor, then fire unguided FFARs at IR source.


I believe the gent may be mixing up his situations a bit. There was an
experament conducted in the theater of operations where F-102's used
their IR sensor, paired with their IR Falcons, to strike heat sources
along the Ho Chi Minh Trail--more of a nuisance program than anything
else. And I have read that they did use their 12 FFARs against ground
targets--but I have not read that the two situations were related. One
of the aviation history magazines did an article on the F-102 a few
years back and covered this episode in reasonable detail.

Brooks
  #27  
Old September 8th 03, 04:38 AM
Peter Stickney
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In article ,
av8r writes:
Hi Peter

The first operational deployment to Viet by F-102's was actually on the
21st of March 1962. Deuces of the 509th FIS deployed to Tan Son Nhut.
They returned 8 days later on the 29th. For the next year during Water
Glass ops, they rotated every six weeks with U.S. Navy AD5Q's.


Thanks. Not to pick nits, but an AD-5Q and an EA-1F were teh same
airplane, redesignated after the 1962 MacNa-fit which unified the US
Service's designation systems. (Pity, 'casue there were some that
really got around. The Lockheed L-100 was, simultaneously, the C-130,
the R8V for the Coast Guard, the GV-1 for the Marines, and the GV-1U
for the Navy. ) I've always wondered what the EA-1s would have done if
something had actually been flying around at that time. Maybe they
were going to microwave it to death. Or, perhaps, pull up alongside
and have the EMs in back fire a bradside with the .38 revolvers in the
survival gear.

Project Bell Tone 1 commenced in December 1960 with six F-100D's of the
510th TFS were deployed to Don Muang Airport. They were replaced by six
F-102A's of the 509th FIS nine months later.


Again, thanks. I didn't realize that Bell Tone started that early. I
do know that later on, part of the USAF Air Defence Detachment at Don
Muang ended up as dedicated support for the King. Was that also the
case during Bell Tone?

Peter, let's keep this thread going if possible. It's extremely
interesting. Are you interested in F-102 losses in country?


By all means. It was an interesting period in our history. The
Kennnedy Administration and Kruschev's government (Was it an
Administration? Or, perhaps a Regime? I don't know) were constantly
playing Challenge and Response, with a bit of James Bond and Matt Helm
thrown in. Kruschev always seemed to underestimate Kennedy's, and the
U.S.'s resolve. You'd think that in a logical world, the response to
the Berlin Wall Crisis in '61, with the National Guard and Reserve
callups, and the deployment of significant forces to Europe, would
have been enough of a warning sign that sticking the MRBMs in Cuba was
a Bad Idea.


I used to love watching the F-102's of the 59th FIS roaring around while
I was at Goose Bay, Labrador (June 64-June 67). The odd time a Deuce of
the 57th FIS would come down from Kef for a visit. Lots of good Bear
hunting back in those days too.


We used to see them a lot when I was a kid, a bit before. New England
was teh birthplace of SAGE, and in the early '60s, Lincoln Labs and
Mitre were supervising SAGE tests against fast high-flyers. local ADC
Deuces, F-101s, F-106s, and the occasional F-104A from Westover would
practice intercepting single B-58s coming down the East Coast.
Needless to say, we got boomed a lot.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
  #29  
Old September 8th 03, 08:29 AM
Scott Peterson
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(Kevin Brooks) wrote:

You are aware that the Cold War was still alive and well through
the *eighties*?


Yes. But I'm also aware that throughout the Viet Nam era National
Guard units were regarded as draft dodgers refuges. Specifically, the
TxANG 147th fighter group was considered a "champagne" unit that was a
refuge for the area's privileged. Its ranks included John Conally's
son, Lloyd Benston's son, John Tower's son, George Bush's son and
seven Dallas Cowboys


And that despite the fact that the TXANG units were
based in Texas, they could have been assigned air defense duties
*anywhere*?


Could of, maybe shudda, but weren't and considering that in that time
frame the F-102 was no longer a first-line aircraft, were probably
close to the bottom of the list for doing that.

The situation today is not all that different (except that
today's threat is unlikely to shoot back), with ANG fighters flying AD
missions from detached locations on a routine basis.


You've lost me here. I'm not aware of any 'threats' that shot back at
air defence missions around the Continental US. In the seventies or
now.

I believe that in the sixties and seventies, the units were much more
tightly tied to the state than they are now. Also since they were
flying aircraft that were not in first-line service, and fairly
high-maintenance, moving them to other bases not equipped to handle
them would have been a major logistical move that would be difficult
to justify.

You may not like
GWB, but attacking the service of the F-102 pilots who did their duty
*wherever* it occured is not gaining you very much.


I said it wasn't the stuff of legend. i.e. not particularly
memorable. That's a long way from attacking them. Anyone who did
their duty honorably can be justifiably proud, regardless of how
memorable it was.


Scott Peterson


"Placebos raise a problem in these days of the pharmacist
labeling pill bottles with their contents. One cannot admit
that the pill is nothing but sugar if it is to work, so a fancy
brand name is needed. Among the proposals made for what
to name a brandname placebo are Confabulase, Gratifycin,
Deludium, Hoaxacillin, Dammitol, Placebic Acid and Panacease."
  #30  
Old September 8th 03, 10:49 AM
Cub Driver
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I said it wasn't the stuff of legend. i.e. not particularly
memorable. That's a long way from attacking them.


That's not the way I read it. I saw mockery for the Cowboy pilots and
sons of the elite, riding herd on Cuban invaders. I think that a) you
are back-pedaling, b) you seize any opportunity to run down the
incumbent prezdint, and c) you really don't care squat about F-102s or
the men who flew them.

Often in the cocktail parties I attend, I hear the Good People being
shocked--shocked!--that Bush failed to attend the last year's meetings
of the Guard. These are of course the same people who would rise up
with dignity and leave any room which a military officer had the ill
manners to enter.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
 




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