Buying a plane versus renting

Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to keep
renting which is very expensive.

If I can find a decent airplane, in the end, I assume purchasing one to use
for a couple years will be cheaper. Am I wrong about this? Any pitfalls I
should be aware of?

A second question is regarding purchasing a newer 172. I know the initial
cost is more, but given the age is it probable to save money via maintenance
compared to an older airplane? What about resale on a newer 172 (year 2001)
versus resale on an older 172/Arrow?

Any input is really appreciated.

--
Thank You,
Ryan

Ryan,

Not that I know anything, but here's my opinion:

With the Feds allowing 50% bonus depreciation on new aircraft (for business
use), my assumption is that this will increase sales for new aircraft and
cause the late model used market to slump (e.g. 1997 - 2001 172s). Also, I
think the late model used market will further be depressed because of the
glass panel cockpits coming out.

I'm also trying to decide if I want to purchase new or pick up a one of
these late model aircraft. I'm seeing asking prices that are fairly
attractive. One would hope that you'd be catching this market at the
bottom of the trough, and that most of the value has already declined from
the person who initially bought the plane.

I'm sure you'll see the response that if you fly more than 100 hours a year,
then it's cheaper to buy. That depends on a lot of things, but as you say,
you're looking to fly 250+ hours per year over the next couple of years,
then you should absolutely be looking at buying.

You might want to describe to the group what type of flying you'll be doing
as well, and where.

r.



"RD" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to keep
renting which is very expensive.

If I can find a decent airplane, in the end, I assume purchasing one to
use
for a couple years will be cheaper. Am I wrong about this? Any pitfalls I
should be aware of?

A second question is regarding purchasing a newer 172. I know the initial
cost is more, but given the age is it probable to save money via
maintenance
compared to an older airplane? What about resale on a newer 172 (year
2001)
versus resale on an older 172/Arrow?

Any input is really appreciated.

--
Thank You,
Ryan

As a note, I will be flying for pleasure. Mainly cross country trips.



"RD" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to keep
renting which is very expensive.

If I can find a decent airplane, in the end, I assume purchasing one to
use
for a couple years will be cheaper. Am I wrong about this? Any pitfalls I
should be aware of?

A second question is regarding purchasing a newer 172. I know the initial
cost is more, but given the age is it probable to save money via
maintenance
compared to an older airplane? What about resale on a newer 172 (year
2001)
versus resale on an older 172/Arrow?

Any input is really appreciated.

--
Thank You,
Ryan

In article , "RD"
wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to
keep
renting which is very expensive.

if you think renting is expensive, just wait until you buy
your first airplane...

:-)

--
Bob Noel

Buying vs. renting is not an apples-to-apples comparison, just as flying
vs. driving is not. There are many factors for each that don't apply to
the other.

Example: we bought a plane last year because there are no rentals
within a 1.5hr drive from my house, and also because we wanted to travel
more and were spending a lot to do it with rental planes. If all had
gone well, we would have indeed saved several thousand dollars by owning
instead of renting, given the same travel, and we certainly would have
saved all those 3-hour round trips to the FBO.

However, despite a prepurchase inspection, our nosegear collapsed 5 days
after we bought the plane. The plane was down for 8 months. Even after
the insurance paid for a new prop and the engine tear-down, overhauling
the rest of the engine and all of the landing gear hydraulics plus a few
other items ended up costing us another 1/3 of what we had paid for the
plane.

The point is that with owning, you assume a different level of risk than
you do by renting. With a rental, your risk is in trusting that the
owner of the plane maintains it well. If you own it, you assume that
risk, and it can get expensive very, very fast.

On the other hand, you also get a different set of benefits, which is
what most of us think of as the "joy of ownership". For most people the
joys far outweigh the risks. (I'm still on the fence about it, but
eventually I'll come around---at this point I can't afford to sell the
thing!)

hope this helps

On 26-Feb-2004, "RD" wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just
to keep
renting which is very expensive.

If I can find a decent airplane, in the end, I assume purchasing one to
use for a couple years will be cheaper. Am I wrong about this? Any
pitfalls I
should be aware of?

A second question is regarding purchasing a newer 172. I know the initial
cost is more, but given the age is it probable to save money via
maintenance compared to an older airplane? What about resale on a newer
172 (year
2001) versus resale on an older 172/Arrow?

Any input is really appreciated.


Certainly, if you fly 250 hours/year you can cost-justify owning. However,
if you are only going to keep this plane a couple of years then you probably
want to consider an older model that will not suffer from much, if any,
depreciation.

The real issue, though, is whether you are really going to be doing that
much flying. 250 hours per year equates to nearly 5 hours per week, every
week. Very few individual owners come close to this unless they use their
airplanes extensively for business purposes. However, if you are intent
upon building hours to qualify for further ratings or some pilot job, then I
think you would want a plane that is inexpensive to fly. Sounds like speed
is not all that important, so I'd be looking at a 172 of a fixed gear, small
engine Cherokee. A Beech Musketeer might also fill the bill, and at an
attractive purchase price.
--
-Elliott Drucker

RD wrote:

As a note, I will be flying for pleasure. Mainly cross country trips.

I doubt that you will find anyone who will rent you a plane for several hundred
hours a year of pleasure trips. Most FBOs balk at renting for more than a few
hours and few keeping a plane overnight. You might be able to do it for trips
during the week, but most of them want the planes on weekends for students.

A club might be an option for you.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

Ryan,

Here's a data point for you:

After one year of ownership of a '70 PA28-140, in which I flew about 100
hours, I pretty much broke even compared to renting. My hourly cost is
higher than renting if you include things I "capitalized" (these are
improvements to the plane which increase its value, it's also a trick which
owners use to fool themselves when they look at the balance sheet and wonder
where all the money went). Most of my flying was for training purposes,
with several pleasure flights mixed in. I would say my plane is average in
terms of purchase price and general condition (in other words, the panel was
about 25 years old, and the interior/paint around 15).

In most cases, whether new or used, you'll need to keep the plane a few
years before the economics make sense.

New planes have high acquisition costs and will depreciate for the first
five years or so, after which things tend to level off. Maintenance will be
less expensive, or rather, covered under warranty, and total cost
(forgetting the loan you'll probably need to get) can be low as long as you
don't throw money at panel improvements, etc. However, insurance will be
higher because your hull value will be near your purchase price (required
for a loan, and I'd certainly fully insure a plane I just dropped mucho
bucks on).

Used planes have low acquisition costs and value remains fairly stable.
Your first year will likely be expensive as you'll want to fix things the
previous owner didn't, and you may want to add an improvement or two.
Maintenance will likely be more frequent as older parts fail: I replaced an
alternator, a tach, a rotating beacon, and fixed an oil leak at various
points in my first year. Insurance is usually more reasonable for an older
used single engine plane.

best of luck,
mark

"RD" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to keep
renting which is very expensive.

If I can find a decent airplane, in the end, I assume purchasing one to
use
for a couple years will be cheaper. Am I wrong about this? Any pitfalls I
should be aware of?

A second question is regarding purchasing a newer 172. I know the initial
cost is more, but given the age is it probable to save money via
maintenance
compared to an older airplane? What about resale on a newer 172 (year
2001)
versus resale on an older 172/Arrow?

Any input is really appreciated.

--
Thank You,
Ryan

I'm sure some w/ mention just being able to get in the plane and go. Safety
comes w/ familiarity and training. Its easier in your own plane.

Bought a '77 Archer for $50K, added $15k and two years. Got my IR ticket,
made many xc trips to Fla from TN and then sold for $70k. Do dickering, no
negotiation, just a cashiers check. I still see 52F on the our field.
Seems like a good investment to me.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



take off my shoes to reply

I bought a 2002 Cirrus SR20 "C" for $226,000. I just sold it for
$145,000. It cost an additional $43,000 for insurance, hangar, and
maintenance. It was flown 250 hours (50 of that was to and from the
service center which was in a different state). You can do the math,
but bottom line it was the worst "investment" I ever made.