Airspeed of military planes

From: Mike Marron

(B2431) wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Of course it flew, sergeant dan. That's what airplanes are designed
to do.

Please stop before you make even more a fool of yourself.

As I said, when you're ready to learn HOW airplanes fly my instruction
rates are quite reasonable.

No thanks, I learned from someone competent.

Riiiiight. We all believe this latest revelation of yours that you're
a certicated pilot sergeant dan. Suuurrre we do...

I lost my medical years ago and I never claimed to be a "sergeant pilot" since
there is no such thing.

Thanks for honouring me by using my title.

I see that spelling, not unlike aviation, still ain't your forte. Next
time you're at the VA hospital picking up your monthly welfare
check,

Your understanding of VA and welfare are as limited as your understanding of
the USAF. It makes me wonder if your father really was ever in the USAF. Now
pay attention, VA and welfare have nothing in common and are administered by
different agencies. Furthermore VA disability is automatically deposited in the
veteran's bank.


be sure to say 'hey' to your good buddy Autocollimator
in the psych ward for me would ya? )


I have no idea who "autocollimator" is and don't care.

I'm not sure why you started in on me months ago, but it really has to stop.
When you insert miltary rank, VA, welfare and all the other things you have
when you mock me you are degrading yourself as well as people on welfare, using
the VA, veterans etc. If you have a beef with me please try to be an adult
about it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Mike Marron wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Michael Zaharis wrote:


Uh oh....here we go again with the ol' Bernoulli vs. Newton debate.
If I were teaching a newbie (like sergeant dan who loves to argue
just for the sheer sake of arguing because he has nothing better
to do with his miserable life) I'd have to simply explain to him that
BOTH Newton and Bernoulli are important. Sure, the links you
provided above (BTW, good website I refer to it often myself) show
that airplanes can fly with the "Bernoulli side" down, however, like
I said both Bernoulli AND Newton are important when it
comes to explaining how subsonic airfoils create lift.



Stop abusing Newton, too!


I really wasn't trying to start a Newton v Bernoulli debate. Actually,
I think that trying to use either of them to describe lift is a bit like
the 3 blind men trying to describe the elephant.


I need to figure out a way to write a "circulation theory of lift for
dummies" book. The websites I referred to are a bit more like
"circulation theory of lift for those who have a somewhat better than
layperson understanding of fluid dynamics."


One thing ya gotta love about Usenet is that there's a wacko around
every corner. OK, so lemme get this straight, mensaboy. According to
you, neither Bernoulli -OR- Newton have anything to do with how an
airfoil develops lift??

Waiting with baited breath for explanations. This oughta' be good....



No, that's not what I said. Of course, Newton ultimately describes how
lift is generated. In a non-relativistic, non-quantum mechanical
context, Newton ultimately describes every physical interaction between
particles (if you want to break it down tot he level of each particle).
You can also apply Bernoulli, once you've descirbed the flow field
around the wings. But, ultimately, airfoil designers use circulation
theories to design airfoils, because they provide a more complete
explanation of why the flow field around a wing behaves the way that it
does. Circulation theories are not in disagreement with Bernoulli or
Newton; they just give a more complete picture than how Bernoulli or
Newton get applied in popular explanations of lift.

As far as I've seen (and I requested more information in another post),
using Newtonian techniques to describe the "action/reaction", but unless
you analyze every little parcel of air effectively solving the Navier
Stokes equation for the entire flow field around the wing, it gives you
very little insight as to how the "action" gets generated. If I am
incorrect on this, please direct me to a good source. And certainly,
you can apply Bernoulli, but you have to do a much more rigorous
analysis of the flow field around the wing than the standard elementary
school "the wing is longer on the upper side, so the flow must go faster
to meet up with the flow on the lower side", then apply Bernoulli to
this complex flow field.

This is why I said that it's a bit like the 3 blind men trying to
describe the elephant. Both Newton and Bernoulli are correct (if
applied correctly), but do not provide a complete insight as to what the
wing is actually doing, and don't provide one with useful tools to
design or analyze airfoils.

I'm not advocating "Lift Faeries" here. I'm merely saying that the
popular descriptions of how lift works don't really give the complete
view that airfoil designers use to design airfoils.

http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/airfoils.html

(B2431) wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Riiiiight. We all believe this latest revelation of yours that you're
a certicated pilot sergeant dan. Suuurrre we do...

I lost my medical years ago and I never claimed to be a "sergeant pilot" since
there is no such thing.

Riiiiiiiiight...you couldn't fly yourself out of a paper bag and it
would take me only about two minutes to prove it if you dared to
show your chicken**** face at my airport. But regardless of the topic,
any hooded coward like you, sergeant dan, who trolls and flames
people anonymously has ZERO credibility in my book.

Thanks for honouring me by using my title.

I see that spelling, not unlike aviation, still ain't your forte. Next
time you're at the VA hospital picking up your monthly welfare
check,

Your understanding of VA and welfare are as limited as your understanding of
the USAF. It makes me wonder if your father really was ever in the USAF.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what you "wonder" about, sergeant dan.
You are a nothing, a cowardly netizen nobody who hides behind your AOL
pseudonym while demeaning, discrediting, accusing without basis and
spouting your bald faced lies.

Now, for everyone BESIDES sergeant dan here, Ed Rasimus actually flew
CAP during a mission over NVN which earned my Father a DFC. We've
talked about this in the past right here on RAM. The award was won in
an Oct. 5, 1966, rescue operation in which Captain Marron was
responsible for the rescue of two McDonnell F-4C Phantom crew members
shot down over North Vietnam. The description of this heroic rescue is
discussed in detail in Chapter 16 of Ed's book, "When Thunder Rolled."

On 3/1/04 8:33 AM, in article ,
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Now, for everyone BESIDES sergeant dan here, Ed Rasimus actually flew
CAP during a mission over NVN which earned my Father a DFC. We've
talked about this in the past right here on RAM. The award was won in
an Oct. 5, 1966, rescue operation in which Captain Marron was
responsible for the rescue of two McDonnell F-4C Phantom crew members
shot down over North Vietnam. The description of this heroic rescue is
discussed in detail in Chapter 16 of Ed's book, "When Thunder Rolled."

We know about Ed, and we'll take it on faith about your Dad.

The only question remaining is, would your Dad be pleased with your
behavior?

Little to nothing of what you do here on r.a.m. shows that you are a worthy
heir to your Dad's exploits.



Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On 3/1/04 8:33 AM, in article ,
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Now, for everyone BESIDES sergeant dan here, Ed Rasimus actually flew
CAP during a mission over NVN which earned my Father a DFC. We've
talked about this in the past right here on RAM. The award was won in
an Oct. 5, 1966, rescue operation in which Captain Marron was
responsible for the rescue of two McDonnell F-4C Phantom crew members
shot down over North Vietnam. The description of this heroic rescue is
discussed in detail in Chapter 16 of Ed's book, "When Thunder Rolled."

We know about Ed, and we'll take it on faith about your Dad.

The only question remaining is, would your Dad be pleased with your
behavior?

Little to nothing of what you do here on r.a.m. shows that you are a
worthy
heir to your Dad's exploits.



Jack
You really know how to hurt a guy. What you say, however, is very true,
more's the pity.

Tex Houston

Jack wrote:

[stinkbait snipped]

Little to nothing of what you do here on r.a.m. shows that you are a worthy
heir to your Dad's exploits.

Troll.

"Tex Houston" wrote:

You really know how to hurt a guy. What you say, however, is very true,
more's the pity.

Other than playing your self-annointed role as resident group nanny,
what's your claim to fame?

Mike Marron wrote:


Now, for everyone BESIDES sergeant dan here, Ed Rasimus actually flew
CAP during a mission over NVN which earned my Father a DFC. We've
talked about this in the past right here on RAM. The award was won in
an Oct. 5, 1966, rescue operation in which Captain Marron was
responsible for the rescue of two McDonnell F-4C Phantom crew members
shot down over North Vietnam. The description of this heroic rescue is
discussed in detail in Chapter 16 of Ed's book, "When Thunder Rolled."


Well marron, it's wonderful that Mr Marron was in a position to
and had the integrity and skill to do this heroic deed. I
sincerely congratulate him.

HOWEVER, I feel that his son certainly isn't living up to the
standards that he had apparently set. Doesn't it bother you at
least a little that a large group of strangers, most of whom are
quite familiar with these aeronautical subjects are comparing the
image of your father that you've painted and yourself who has
made such a cretinous lout of himself on this ng?.

I sincerely hope that there's no mechanism by which he can see
the embarrassing image that you've created for yourself here.
--

-Gord.

Mike Marron wrote:

"Tex Houston" wrote:

You really know how to hurt a guy. What you say, however, is very true,
more's the pity.

Other than playing your self-annointed role as resident group nanny,
what's your claim to fame?

You suck cock Tarver. You're a turd of human being.

Grantland

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:33:02 GMT, Mike Marron
wrote:

Now, for everyone BESIDES sergeant dan here, Ed Rasimus actually flew
CAP during a mission over NVN which earned my Father a DFC. We've
talked about this in the past right here on RAM. The award was won in
an Oct. 5, 1966, rescue operation in which Captain Marron was
responsible for the rescue of two McDonnell F-4C Phantom crew members
shot down over North Vietnam. The description of this heroic rescue is
discussed in detail in Chapter 16 of Ed's book, "When Thunder Rolled."

So Mike your father is a real American military hero while you have
done nothing more than "shovel **** in Louisana" and lived in your
father's shadow all your life?