Descent below MDA -- what would you do?

In article , wrote:
You failed to tell us the method for closing your IFR flight plan once on the
ground. Do they give you a phone number? Do you have cell phone service on
the approach?

Well, it was a training flight; the plan (negotiated with the controller
ahead of time) was to go missed and call them in the hold for further
clearance.

The reason I ask about the phone is because you could have opted to cancel IFR
and then do whatever you wanted to do to get in and land.

Let's assume I still had radio contact with ATC 2 miles out and canceled at
that point. I could see how that would improve the legal picture, but it
certainly doesn't make it any safer. In fact, it could have made it worse.
As we came in, there was a guy on the ground holding short of the runway,
presumably waiting for his IFR release. Had I canceled, he might have been
released, not seen me swimming towards him in the haze, and gone out on the
runway right in front of me.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:09:07 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:46:09 -0500, A Lieberman
wrote:

On 14 Aug 2005 07:54:47 -0700, Doug wrote:

Click the mic and turn the lights on.

Doug,

No PCL per Duat.

Allen

PCL on 122.8 per the Jepp approach chart
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Dang Ron,

Had I looked at the FAA chart close enough on the FAA chart provided on the
original post, I would have noticed the white L circled in black by the
CTAF frequency. Answer was right under my nose.

Thanks for correcting me!

Allen

Had I canceled, he might have been
released, not seen me swimming towards him in the haze, and gone out on the
runway right in front of me.

.... and you would have seen him, and he would have seen you. This is
supposed to be VFR weather, right? Now, if you are flying visually with
no IFR clearance in IFR murk, that's another story, and the book should
be thrown.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:07:24 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

Let's assume I still had radio contact with ATC 2 miles out and canceled at
that point. I could see how that would improve the legal picture, but it
certainly doesn't make it any safer. In fact, it could have made it worse.
As we came in, there was a guy on the ground holding short of the runway,
presumably waiting for his IFR release. Had I canceled, he might have been
released, not seen me swimming towards him in the haze, and gone out on the
runway right in front of me.

How does it improve the legal situation to cancel IFR when you are still
IMC? (You mentioned visibility of 2 1/2 miles).



Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
How does it improve the legal situation to cancel IFR when you are still
IMC? (You mentioned visibility of 2 1/2 miles).

I my original post, I said something like "reports of 2-1/2 to 4, assume
2-1/2". In a followup, I asked people to ignore that assumption and
consider accept the possibility that it might be 3. My apologies if I
confused the issue with this pair of contradictory statements.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Yes, I know both the Contact and SVFR were unavailable. On the other
hand, people were flying around VFR. I know my original statement of
"assume
it's 2-1/2 miles where you are" eliminated VFR from the list of legal
alternatives, but for all I know, it really was 3 or 4 miles.

I could have gone missed, gotten back in contact with ATC, cancelled IFR,
and then proceeded back to the airport VFR. But that seems totally
pointless.

What if I hadn't asked you to assume it was 2-1/2 miles? The rest stays
the same, ATIS at several airports in the area reporting variously 2-1/2,
3, and 4 miles. Lacking an official report, the best I can say is "an
honest evaluation of flight visibility by the pilot could have reasonably
been said to be 3 miles".


Are you asking what's legal or what's wise?

Assuming the former, as long as you have at least three miles visibility and
remain at least 500 feet below, 1000 feet above, and 2000 feet lateral
clearance from all clouds I'd say you can legally land. FAR 91.175 would no
longer apply as you're no longer operating under IFR.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...

In the absence of radio or phone contact, can you unilaterally cancel IFR
and inform ATC after you land?


I don't know of anything that prohibits it.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

In the absence of radio or phone contact, can you unilaterally cancel IFR
and inform ATC after you land?


No.


Why not?

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:39:15 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
How does it improve the legal situation to cancel IFR when you are still
IMC? (You mentioned visibility of 2 1/2 miles).

I my original post, I said something like "reports of 2-1/2 to 4, assume
2-1/2". In a followup, I asked people to ignore that assumption and
consider accept the possibility that it might be 3. My apologies if I
confused the issue with this pair of contradictory statements.

I confuse easily these days g.

But assuming you were legal to cancel IFR, and wanted to do so, could you
not contact FSS through one of the relatively close VOR's, and cancel that
way? Or are they, too, out of radio reception range at that altitude? I
note HUO or CMK might be within range.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Are you asking what's legal or what's wise?

Neither. I'm asking what other people would do.