LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY

On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old Marquis
Riscal. Nice afternoon.

I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time, I
can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind the
pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point
that
this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims
and
head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in a
mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.

Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the spread
was nice at least...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.



I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
manners were required under all conditions.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.
(Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
(p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: KtM
Date: 2/21/04 11:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old
Marquis
Riscal. Nice afternoon.

I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time,
I
can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind
the
pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point
that
this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims
and
head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in
a
mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.

Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the
spread
was nice at least...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to
a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.



I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
manners were required under all conditions.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.
(Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
(p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)


Und fur das ich bedanke mich.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: KtM ia

snip

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.

Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and that
after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who should
have been hanged.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: (B2431)
Date: 2/21/04 7:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


From: KtM ia

snip

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.

Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and
that
after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who
should
have been hanged.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired



After Skorzeny died I got a letter from Robert in Madrid telling me about his
death and that he had died peacefully in his sleep. I know that is not what you
had hoped for, but I thought you might want to know the truth as an end to the
story.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , B2431
writes
Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and that
after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who should
have been hanged.

This is all above Art's paygrade at the time of the meeting. He wasn't
authorised, trained, equipped, paid or ordered to arrest Nazi war
criminals: nor does it sound as if Skorzeny was a fugitive hiding from
justice.

He met the man in a social context, talked to him, and they parted
company. Years later he shared his memories of the incident with us.
What did he do wrong?

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 2/24/2004 5:27 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In message , B2431
writes
Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and
that
after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who
should
have been hanged.

This is all above Art's paygrade at the time of the meeting. He wasn't
authorised, trained, equipped, paid or ordered to arrest Nazi war
criminals: nor does it sound as if Skorzeny was a fugitive hiding from
justice.

He met the man in a social context, talked to him, and they parted
company. Years later he shared his memories of the incident with us.
What did he do wrong?

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

Show me where I said Art had done anything wrong. Besides, there were no
outstanding warrants on the murderer.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote:
From: (ArtKramr)

LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY

As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS war
criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable, but
he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.


'he was antisemitic'

Where did you read this ?

"KtM" wrote in message
...
On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old
Marquis
Riscal. Nice afternoon.

I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the
time, I
can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking
behind the
pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a
small
photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the
point
that
this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight
sims
and
head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant
in a
mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.

Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the
spread
was nice at least...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos
to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.



I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
manners were required under all conditions.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.
(Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
(p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)


Skorzeny was a Nazi party member in Austria since the early 1930's, and was
unapologetic about his belief in Hitler in his autobiography "My Commando
Operations."
He was very percepive in noticing that the Allies had excellent operational
intelligence, which he blamed on German traitors in the "Schwarz Kappel."
The book came out before Ultra was declassified.

Joe




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

From: funkraum spam


(B2431) wrote:
From: (ArtKramr)

LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY

As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS
war
criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable,
but
he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.


'he was antisemitic'

Where did you read this ?

From several sources over the years. No, I can't cite specifics. However, when
he went into the SS it was an all volunteer service where one had to be a
member of the Nazi party. He joined the Austrian Nazi party in 1930. One of the
tenets of the Nazi party is, and always has been, antisemitism. After WW2 he
worked in Spain to help SS murderers escape justice. During the 1950s he was in
Egypt assisting in anti Israel projects.

Yes, I'd say he was antisemitic. Joining the Nazi party before it was expediant
to do so tells me he was rabidly antisemetic.

Dan, U.S. Air force, retired

Subject: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
From: (B2431)
Date: 2/26/04 4:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: funkraum spam


(B2431) wrote:
From: (ArtKramr)

LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY

As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS
war
criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable,
but
he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.


'he was antisemitic'

Where did you read this ?

From several sources over the years. No, I can't cite specifics. However,
when
he went into the SS it was an all volunteer service where one had to be a
member of the Nazi party. He joined the Austrian Nazi party in 1930. One of
the
tenets of the Nazi party is, and always has been, antisemitism. After WW2 he
worked in Spain to help SS murderers escape justice. During the 1950s he was
in
Egypt assisting in anti Israel projects.

Yes, I'd say he was antisemitic. Joining the Nazi party before it was
expediant
to do so tells me he was rabidly antisemetic.

Dan, U.S. Air force, retired

That thought certainly entered my mind as I said, " Bitte darf ich der saltz
haben herr Skorzeny".


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer