Another Botched use of runways

Judah wrote:
Skunk wrote in news:UeO1h.19717$kI6.17626
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:


Is it me or is the FAA about one incident away from a
disaster worse than Lexington?


This is very similar to the Lexington accident. They were both caused by
pilot error.

The only difference was that in Lexington, the FAA had a completely separate
issue that people tried to scapegoat as the cause of the accident.

The same does not apply here. This incident can only be blamed on the pilots
who made the mistake.

Perhaps if there were a second controller in Lexington, this incident could
have been prevented as well.

And the chaos in Newark continues. Remember, it's all the
pilots fault. The FAA has nothing to do with anything
anywhere. We could never blame the "Guvment" for anything
could we???

NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- Two commercial planes bumped
into each other Tuesday on a Newark International Airport
runway, delaying hundreds of passengers on a trans-Atlantic
flight.

Lufthansa flight LH403, headed to Frankfurt, Germany, bumped
into another plane, said Lufthansa spokeswoman Jennifer
Urbaniak. A wing on the Lufthansa Boeing 747 was damaged,
she said.

In a statement, Lufthansa said there were 291 passengers,
three infants and 17 crew members on board. No injuries were
reported.

The second plane was an empty Continental Airlines Boeing
757, which was being relocated to a remote overnight parking
spot "and was in a stationary position" when the contact
occurred, the airline said in a statement.

It "was apparently brushed by a taxiing Lufthansa 747
aircraft," Continental said. "It appears that the 747's left
wing brushed the 757's right wing."

The Lufthansa flight was canceled, said Alan Hicks,
spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
He added the Federal Aviation Administration will investigate.

Skunk wrote:




You are the idiot sir

1. The ILS would be off in the cockpit
2. If the ATCT can't see an aircraft landing incorrectly on the taxiway
what good are they?
3. The pilot(s) should notice
4. The pilots on the ground should notice
5. The BRITE display in the cab should paint a weird picture of a weird
approach on radar

Obviously, you are not an aviation professional or, if you are, you are
incompetent. KEWR Runway 29 does not have a straight-in instrument
approach procedure of any type, much less an ILS.

As they say in court, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

I can understand why they replaced you.

Skunk wrote:

In todays America nobody is at fault huh?

um... The pilot that's flying? G

"Skunk" wrote in message
...
1. The ILS would be off in the cockpit
Yes, and this is the PF's (Pilot Flying) problem. Only if the controller is
giving the pilot a SAR "talkdown" (very rare) would he be using any system
that allows him to see accurately where the aircraft is relative to the
runway centreline.

2. If the ATCT can't see an aircraft landing incorrectly on the taxiway
what good are they?
Remember the Tower is generally off to the side of the runway - often by
quite a way. Thus, until an aircraft is relatively close to the runway, it's
pretty hard to picture where an aircraft is relative to the centreline.

3. The pilot(s) should notice
Yes, they should. Landing in the right place, in the right configuration,
and at the right speed is the job of the pilots.

4. The pilots on the ground should notice
They _might_ notice, but the priority of the pilots of any aircraft on the
ground is to make their way around the airport safely, down the right routes
and without banging into anything or anybody. Taxying, though apparently
easy, is actually one of the places where plenty of accidents occur through
complacency. And let's face it, if aircraft on the ground were having
accidents because their crew were too busy looking into the sky, you'd be
moaning about that too. It may well be that someone waiting on a taxiway
might have been gazing into the air and thought: "Hang about, his approach
looks a bit weird", but (a) at an airfield with multiple runways the
instinct might be that the landing aircraft is heading into a different
runway. And even if you do choose to say anything, it might take a while to
get a word in edgeways if the frequency is busy.

In todays America nobody is at fault huh?
Errr, no. If a pilot is told which bit of ground to land on, and then lands
on the wrong bit, then it's his (or her) fault. Simple as that. Go surf the
NTSB incident report archive and you'll find plenty of reports where blame
is attributed - to engineers, to controllers, to pilots, to wherever it's
due.

DC

"Skunk" wrote in message
.. .
NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- Two commercial planes bumped into each other
Tuesday on a Newark International Airport runway, delaying hundreds of
passengers on a trans-Atlantic flight.

And your point is ...?

There will be an accident investigation, and the reason will be found. Maybe
the stationary aircraft was in the wrong place, maybe the moving one was
going the wrong way, maybe they were both doing the right thing but the
moving one thought the gap was bigger than it was, or maybe delinquent
squirrels came out at night and repainted the taxiway lines ten feet to the
left. It'll all come out in the investigation, and fault will be attributed
approriately.

D.

On 11/01/06 08:40, David Cartwright wrote:
"Skunk" wrote in message
.. .
NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- Two commercial planes bumped into each other
Tuesday on a Newark International Airport runway, delaying hundreds of
passengers on a trans-Atlantic flight.

And your point is ...?

There will be an accident investigation, and the reason will be found. Maybe
the stationary aircraft was in the wrong place, maybe the moving one was
going the wrong way, maybe they were both doing the right thing but the
moving one thought the gap was bigger than it was, or maybe delinquent
squirrels came out at night and repainted the taxiway lines ten feet to the
left. It'll all come out in the investigation, and fault will be attributed
approriately.

And hopefully we'll finally be able to nail those damn squirrels!

;-)

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Skunk wrote in
:

And the chaos in Newark continues. Remember, it's all the
pilots fault. The FAA has nothing to do with anything
anywhere. We could never blame the "Guvment" for anything
could we???

Please explain who exactly at the FAA was responsible for this accident?

Oh, perhaps if there were a 24th person in the tower cab, whose sole
responsibility would have been staring out the window, he might have been
able to see from 3 miles away that the Lufthansa flight was 6 inches past its
hold short line and prevented this accident.

Oh I know. Perhaps if there were 5,000 FAA controllers in the Tower Cab, they
could each be assigned a plane to watch at all times so that the pilots can
just sleep their way through the flight.

Give me a f^&*ing break.

Judah wrote:

Oh I know. Perhaps if there were 5,000 FAA controllers in the Tower Cab, they
could each be assigned a plane to watch at all times so that the pilots can
just sleep their way through the flight.

How about guys in pink shirts standing next to the runway?

B A R R Y wrote:


How about guys in pink shirts standing next to the runway?

In the days before RVR really worked, when the weather was foggy at some
airline airports they had a certified observor standing beside the
runway who provided manually observed RVR readings to the tower via an
interphone link.

Judah wrote:
Skunk wrote in
:


And the chaos in Newark continues. Remember, it's all the
pilots fault. The FAA has nothing to do with anything
anywhere. We could never blame the "Guvment" for anything
could we???


Please explain who exactly at the FAA was responsible for this accident?

Oh, perhaps if there were a 24th person in the tower cab, whose sole
responsibility would have been staring out the window, he might have been
able to see from 3 miles away that the Lufthansa flight was 6 inches past its
hold short line and prevented this accident.

Oh I know. Perhaps if there were 5,000 FAA controllers in the Tower Cab, they
could each be assigned a plane to watch at all times so that the pilots can
just sleep their way through the flight.

Give me a f^&*ing break.

Just a little sarcasm toward the "Tombstone Agency"

Relax

http://www.adversity.net/FAA/ryan_v_mineta.htm