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#41
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"Brent Rehmel" wrote in message news:SY9cb.563589$o%2.250672@sccrnsc02... Are you saying that you can buy a Cessna 150 that is IFR capable with, say, 1500 hours TBO for $25,000 - $35,000? If so, then I agree a C 150 would be a good deal. A Zodiac XL ready to fly would cost about $46,000 IFR equipped. That's more than a very solid, IFR certified late 70's Warrior with a mid time engine currently books for, which, with newish paint, is indistinguishable from a 2003 Warrior. I'm glad the Zodiacs are out there (the more planes the merrier) but one has to value "new" much more than I do to make Zodiacs look better than older PA-28-151/161's. -Greg A Zodiac HD ready to fly would cost about $42,500 IFR equipped. However, it wouldn't be legal to fly the HD in the U.S. so the comparison has to be for the XL. |
#42
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David Megginson wrote in message
I'd be surprised to see too many people buying a 150/2 for financial reasons -- a Cherokee 140 costs about the same to purchase, fuel, and maintain, but it has two more seats and flies faster. I think that people who buy the 150/2 do it because of personal preferences for style or handling. Partner and I purchased a '67 150G in late June. Why? 1. It's what we're most familiar with; 2. First time ownership meant K.I.S.S.; 3. It fits our mission profile & it fits our wives' expense profile. Best, Greg Hopp N4691X |
#43
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Partner and I purchased a '67 150G in late June. Why?
1. It's what we're most familiar with; 2. First time ownership meant K.I.S.S.; 3. It fits our mission profile & it fits our wives' expense profile. Best, Greg Hopp N4691X AND, you'll never find a Cherokee that can legally do loops and spins like the A150/152! |
#44
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#45
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Actually, the early Cherokee 140s were certified for spins.
Wow. I never knew that. What changed later? The airframes were identical for many years, right? |
#46
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"DaveSproul" wrote in message ... Actually, the early Cherokee 140s were certified for spins. Wow. I never knew that. What changed later? The airframes were identical for many years, right? All the 140's were approved in the utility category up to 1950 lb gross weight. The 150 and the 160 were only certificated in the normal category (making them not spinable). Might have been that the empty weights crept up so high as to make the CG envelope of the utility category fairly unusable. I know that my Navion has a utility envelope that's only places gross only a couple of hundred pounds over the empty weight...I could only get in it with minimal fuel and no passengers/baggage. |
#47
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Ron Natalie wrote:
: All the 140's were approved in the utility category up to 1950 lb gross weight. : The 150 and the 160 were only certificated in the normal category (making : them not spinable). Might have been that the empty weights crept up so : high as to make the CG envelope of the utility category fairly unusable. : I know that my Navion has a utility envelope that's only places gross only : a couple of hundred pounds over the empty weight...I could only get in it with : minimal fuel and no passengers/baggage. The Cherokees have a pretty wide CG envelope, but normally operate very far forward CG. I have done the calculations and determined that it's *impossible* to aft-load the thing and stay under the 200 lbs in the baggage compartment (min fuel, 70 lb pilot, 200 lbs baggage and back seats full to gross). Funny thing about the spins is that in the 140 manual, they don't actually say spins are approved on so many words, but rather that spins are not approved in 'Normal' category. I remember reading somewhere that a test pilot was killed in the Cherokee certification when a spin turned into an unrecoverable flat spin. Probably operating in the aft CG region outside of 'Utility.' I can't imagine any difference between the 140s and 160/180 in spin characteristics. Minimally different engine weight, but perhaps the battery further back changes moment of inertia? FWIW -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#48
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
"DaveSproul" wrote in message ... Actually, the early Cherokee 140s were certified for spins. Wow. I never knew that. What changed later? The airframes were identical for many years, right? All the 140's were approved in the utility category up to 1950 lb gross weight. The 150 and the 160 were only certificated in the normal category (making them not spinable). Might have been that the empty weights crept up so high as to make the CG envelope of the utility category fairly unusable. I know that my Navion has a utility envelope that's only places gross only a couple of hundred pounds over the empty weight...I could only get in it with minimal fuel and no passengers/baggage. I've flown and spun 150/160s that were approved for spins in the Utility Category. Not all were. It depended on the equipment installed. Most that were not approved had A/C and the big fresh air fan in the tail. My '68 180D is approved for spins in the utility category (and spins great). The big change came in '73 when most models got a 5" stretch to the fuselage, and longer wings and stabilator (and the resulting CG change). The 140, which was not stretched, retained spin approval in the Utility Category until they quit building them in '77. The Cherokee is very sensitive to CG position. When I spin mine, I can tell whether the CG is in the front or rear of the Utility envelope. The spin is noticably flatter (but still quite recoverable) when close to the back of the Utility range. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) |
#49
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The spin is noticably flatter (but still quite recoverable)
when close to the back of the Utility range. Fascinating. I'd never heard of people spinning Cherokees. I've had an ingrained assumption (prejudice?) that low wing airplanes are much more susceptible to unrecoverable spins than high wing. That's what always made me feel safer in low-end Cessnas. Maybe I was unfairly traumatized, but I saw a guy get killed when he couldn't get his Pitts out of an inverted flat spin. I know that's a different beast than what we've been discussing, but I'll always be hugely wary of spins. Dave Sproul - Bethesda, MD |
#50
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DaveSproul wrote:
:The spin is noticably flatter (but still quite recoverable) :when close to the back of the Utility range. Good to know. It's a pretty difficult beast to nail down, from what I've seen. I happen to know that it's not legal to run mine in the utility category anyway because of the engine upgrade, so that legally kill the spin idea. : Fascinating. I'd never heard of people spinning Cherokees. I've had an : ingrained assumption (prejudice?) that low wing airplanes are much more : susceptible to unrecoverable spins than high wing. That's what always made me : feel safer in low-end Cessnas. I've got a friend who used to do rolls in his Cherokee 140. Especially entertaining because when he took his brother up and did an aileron roll, his brother went back to his instructor and was then informed that it was, "impossible to do a roll in a Cherokee." Right.... -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
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