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#71
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
Gezellig wrote in news:g0skjl$55p$1
@news.albasani.net: On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:33:33 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote: JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot error in his altimeter was the least of his problems. He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test. This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000 feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to impact in less than 30 seconds. The NTSB report is vivid and frightening. Thank you Tina, I just reread this, Not that it would mean anything to you. Bertie Hey, Bertie, for one thread in your oh so busy day of doing nothing but projecting yourself as a complete Usenet asshole, why not give it a ****ing rest? Little chance of that, I'm afraid. Bertie |
#72
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
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#73
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
Gezellig wrote in :
On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:33:33 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote: JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot error in his altimeter was the least of his problems. He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test. This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000 feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to impact in less than 30 seconds. The NTSB report is vivid and frightening. Thank you Tina, I just reread this, Not that it would mean anything to you. Bertie Hey, Bertie, for one thread in your oh so busy day of doing nothing but projecting yourself as a complete Usenet asshole, why not give it a ****ing rest? You're a ****ing moron who doesn't know **** from shinola. |
#74
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
On Mon, 19 May 2008 09:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On May 19, 7:58 am, Tina wrote: JFK was in a spiral from about 5000 feet when he crashed. A 200 foot error in his altimeter was the least of his problems. He had more training for in IR than most do when they pass the test. This was a case of a pilot who, it would seem, was crossing the sound with an auto pilot engaged. Radar showed a smooth flight until that point when most would have started down to pattern altitude from 5000 feet. The airplane went from pretty straight and pretty level to impact in less than 30 seconds. The NTSB report is vivid and frightening. Thank you Tina, I just reread this, http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?...MA178& akey=1 Somewhat applicable to this thread! Ken He was doomed. injured ankle (rudder control issues), inability to multi-task, turned down a co-ride with his CFI, VFR FNR, the list goes on. Tragic but avoidable, my 2 cents. |
#75
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
On Mon, 19 May 2008 13:49:32 -0400, Kirk Ellis wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:02:24 -0400, Dudley Henriques wrote: I've always believed that Kennedy fell victim to a false horizon by somehow starting a turn on a false visual reference then allowing his nose to get away from him in the haze due to his inexperience causing him not to realize he needed to transition immediately to instruments. In this condition and with the nose lowering and the airspeed rising, Kennedy desperately needed to realize he needed to level the wings and kill the bank as the lead in to recovering the nose in pitch. This is the classic graveyard spiral. Not solving for bank and trying to solve for pitch simply deepened the issue. I'm fairly convinced that by this time the nose was so low and the spiral tightening so fast he became fixated on the grayness in front of him that he thought was gray sky but was in fact gray water. The rest is history. Just my read on one potential cause for that accident. It may be plausible to assume that if John's aircraft had been equipped with a G1000, he and his passengers might still be with us. It's only speculation but seems feasible. IIRC, it's equally plausible to assume that if he had just turned on the autopilot that was already in the aircraft they'd still be here with us. Many links to a chain. |
#76
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
Chris Anderson's Book "The Day John Died" will offer more insights.
JFK Jr was a known risk taker, and was called the Master of Disaster by his friends. His ankle may still have been in a cast on this trip, the result of an injury from an ultra light accident not long before. It's been said very few of his family and friends were willing to fly with him. He lacked the superior judgment pilots should have to avoid circumstances where they may be called upon to display superior skills. |
#77
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
On May 19, 2:10*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
When every once of common sense, physical sensation, charts floating, and g's pressing on your body tell you you need to push, and your gyro panel is suspect, go immediately to primary panel to verify. Dudley, How about the inverse, which I have been emphasizing in my experiences? Would I not be saying the same thing? Gyro tumbled in a position where I went from normal pitch to a 20 degree pitch up and I DID NOT feel the G's expected? After all the airplane doesn't care if it's VMC or IMC outside the airframe so to speak, so if I see that pitch change in VMC and get the seat of the pants feelings of positive G, I would expect the same in IMC. That lack of feeling flagged the HI which made me go to secondary instruments. Would that not be the same thing as you describe above (not to the extreme of floating charts) but in reverse? In otherwords, I am catching the situation at hand before it became a "control the airplane issue" by using my sensory feelings in the seat of my pants against visual aids (in this case my instruments in IMC) that changed without a corresponding seat of the pants feeling change. For capturing the ILS below the glide slope, add power, no seat of the pants feeling, flags me to check engine instrumentation or outside temp probe for icing. In all what I am saying is that it supplements and verifies the instrumentation based on power inputs (reduction or adding). No different visually so to speak, if I look out the windscreen or look at the AI and associated instruments in my scan. As Gatts said, it's not being used for zero zero landings, but a supplement to verify what my eyes say. The feeling should match what my eyes say for POWER inputs no matter what meterological conditions are outside the airplane. Again, not inner ear or head feelings, but the seat of the pants feeling. Whether I look outside the windscreen at the horizon or look at the AI, the feeling in the seat of the pants should be the same. Any discrepancy for that feeling should be resolved. If both the gyro panel AND the primary panel tell you nothing, you've got SERIOUS problems :-) Amen on that and no seat of the pants skill will get you out of that. That is called LUCK. And lots of good luck will you need! :-))) |
#78
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:53:44 GMT, Benjamin Dover wrote:
You're PLONK |
#79
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
Dudley Henriques wrote:
gatt wrote: Dudley Henriques wrote: I think what might be confusing some people reading this thread is that even though the pilot should always be avoiding physical sensation as a cue to perform an action while on instruments, Normal scan technique involves the constant presence of physical sensations. This means tht you are literally cross checking physical sensation constantly against what the instruments are telling you. The trick to staying alive is in being aware of these physical sensations but accepting without question what the clocks are telling you. Thanks, Dudley. I think that pretty much boils it down. That funny buffeting feeling and mushiness of controls on a long apprach might tell you to that it's time to get your eyes off the glide slope needle and scan the instrument panel. An alert pilot wouldn't dismiss it as turbulence, but at the same time he wouldn't panic and shove the nose forward, either. -c |
#80
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Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff
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