Best all time fly boy pictures

On 09 Mar 2004 06:58:33 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

(Corky Scott) wrote:

PS, both Tallman and his equally famous partner Paul Mantz died in
stunt related airplane crashes. Mantz was the pilot who landed the
B-17 with gear up for the opening sequences of "12 O'Clock High". He
died in the crash of the cobbled together "Flight of the Phoenix"
airplane which did not climb as well as anticipated to clear a sand
dune after the director requested one more pass. At least I think the
director had requested one more pass. Perhaps not, perhaps it was
just that one more pass had been scheduled. Not sure.

Fascinating. Perhaps you know who flew under the bridges, etc in "The Blue
Max"? I recall being shocked when Art Scholl was killed filming the spin for
"Top Gun". He was the best known aerobatic flyer of the pervious 20 years.

-- Charlie Springer

I'm sure it's here somewhere in a book on Hollywood's aviation films
but I don't know it offhand.

The speculation about Art Scholl's fatal accident is that the camera
placed behind his cockpit for this sequence put the center of gravity
just a bit too far to the rear such that his flat spin became
unrecoverable. He apparently did not attempt to bail out. Don't know
if that was because he chose not to wear a chute for this film
sequence or if he just kept attempting to recover all they way to
impact.

Corky Scott

PS, regarding the gear up sequence for 12 O'Clock High, Mantz
discovered during the landing that despite the gear being retracted,
he could still affect some directional control using the brakes. In a
B-17, the gear retracts into the inner engine nacelles but protrudes
some even when fully retracted. Mantz was requested to blow through a
tent during the skid after touching down and he found that he could
easily correct his direction using the brakes even though he was
skidding on his belly on turf.

He was flying the bomber solo.

I always wondered why in the world a tent would be located direcly
beside the runway of a bomber base, now I know: it was put there for
the bomber to plow through it for the film. Dramatic effect don'tcha
know.

Corky Scott wrote:

I always wondered why in the world a tent would be located direcly
beside the runway of a bomber base, now I know: it was put there for
the bomber to plow through it for the film. Dramatic effect don'tcha
know.

In that locale and era, weren't airfields literally fields (i.e. no designated
runways) so that every takeoff and landing was directly into the wind? If so,
then all of the structures could potentially be under the flight path (depending
on the wind direction at the time). But I don't doubt that the tent was placed
there with the full intention of plowing through it for the camera.

Russell Kent

Russell Kent wrote:

In that locale and era, weren't airfields literally fields (i.e. no designated
runways) so that every takeoff and landing was directly into the wind? If so,
then all of the structures could potentially be under the flight path
(depending
on the wind direction at the time). But I don't doubt that the tent was
placed
there with the full intention of plowing through it for the camera.

Most of the fields in East Anglia has concrete runways. A notable exception was
Duxford, where the P47's could take off on the very wide grass eight abreast.
An entire figher group could get off in a couple of minutes and save precious
fuel. I have some home movies from a friend of a group takeoff for an escort
mission. (He flew 105 missions out of Duxford).

-- Charlie Springer

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:11:59 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

On 09 Mar 2004 06:58:33 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

(Corky Scott) wrote:

PS, both Tallman and his equally famous partner Paul Mantz died in
stunt related airplane crashes.

One clarifying point: Tallman's death wasn't directly related to
performing a stunt. IIRC, he crashed in IFR conditions while using a plane
to commute to or from a film site.

Fascinating. Perhaps you know who flew under the bridges, etc in "The Blue
Max"?

I'm sure it's here somewhere in a book on Hollywood's aviation films
but I don't know it offhand.

Got James Farmer's _Broken Wings: Hollywood's Air Crashes_. He doesn't
write much about "The Blue Max" but here's a caption on a picture from the
film:

"World War I German ace George Peppard deplanes from his Fokker DR.1
triplane replica to find the RAF had reached his field before him. An
untold number of DeHavilland Tiger Moth trainers were destroyed for the
film, the anti-war feature 'The Blue Max' (Fox 1966). It was filmed in
Ireland under the direction of aerial technical advisor Allen Wheeler.
Nine WWI-era fighter replicas were constructed for the film, including two
SE-5s, three Fokker DR.1s, two Pfalz D.IIIAs and two Fokker D.VIIs. The
remainder of the sky and field sequences and accompanying carnage were
supplied by repainted Tiger Moths and Stampes."

The pilots are listed in the DVD credits:

Derek Pigott
Ken Byrnes
Tim Clutterbuck
Pat Cranfield
Tim Healey
Peter Hillwood
Joan Hughes
Darby and Roger Kennedy
Liam Mulligan
Taffy Rich

Not sure if the "Derek Pigott" listed in the credits is the same man as the
soaring author, Derek Piggott.

The director for the aerial unit is Anthony Squire. Derek Cracknell was
listed as an assistant director, he was the AD for many of the Bond
pictures as well as "Battle of Britain."

Ron Wanttaja

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:06:27 -0600, Russell Kent
wrote:

Corky Scott wrote:

I always wondered why in the world a tent would be located direcly
beside the runway of a bomber base, now I know: it was put there for
the bomber to plow through it for the film. Dramatic effect don'tcha
know.

In that locale and era, weren't airfields literally fields (i.e. no designated
runways) so that every takeoff and landing was directly into the wind? If so,
then all of the structures could potentially be under the flight path (depending
on the wind direction at the time). But I don't doubt that the tent was placed
there with the full intention of plowing through it for the camera.

Russell Kent

To the best of my knowledge all bomber bases in England used by the
8th Air Force used concrete or asphalt runways.

My father, who flew for the Navy during WWII, took his primary
training initially with a contracted civilian trainer. I think this
program was called the CPT for Civilian Pilot Training. He then moved
on to primary training down in Florida. In Florida the airbase was in
fact a gigantic turf field in which everyone was supposed to note the
wind direction by looking at the windsock, and take off or land
accordingly.

He told me that landing in high winds wasn't a problem because you
always landed into the wind. However, taxiing in after the landing
WAS a problem and that's why the military versions of the Stearman had
the hand holds at the lower wingtips: They were for the ground crew
to grab onto to keep the airplane from tipping up when the pilot
turned sideways to the wind.

Gettng back to the opening sequence for "12 O'Clock High", the scene
was supposed to be at a British bomber base but was actually filmed at
an abandoned airbase in Florida. Someone mentioned that you can
actually see a palm tree at some point in the movie but I've never
seen it.

What I did notice one time when I was cutting scenes from the combat
footage to flesh out an interview I did with a B-17 top turret gunner,
was a Messerschmitt flashing by the camera. This was uncalled during
the movie and I'm not sure anyone who cut the original movie noticed
that the 109 was even there.

It was during one of the scenes of the target area, probably filmed
from the nose and looking nearly straight down. I was running the
film at slow motion to creep up on a spot where I was going to "cut"
the shot out and saw something zip by right past the camera.

I backed the film up and slowed it down to the point where it was
blipping along frame by frame and sure enough, a BF109 passes right
under the bomber about 200 to 300 feet below the belly.

That's one of the few shots pulled together by the film crew that
showed an actual enemy airplane, and no one knows it's there because
at normal speed you virtually cannot see it.

Nearly all the other shots of fighters attacking, like the shot of a
lone fighter diving from above and passing down behind the tail are
Allied fighters. The lone diver is a Spitfire, which is obvious when
you slow the film way down. The three radial engined airplanes that
all roll together after approaching from behind the bomber and dive
away are actually P-47's, complete with the white painted nose of the
cowling.

And the close up of the "Focke Wulf" firing it's machine guns at the
bomber is not just a P-47, it's an unpainted P-47 in gleaming
aluminum, and bubble canopy.

These shots initially aroused my suspicion because compared to the
obvious combat footage, they were very clear. Combat footage of
incoming fighters is almost always blurry and jerky because either the
cameraman is ducking or the area near where he is standing is shaking
from the recoil of the machine guns firing.

Corky Scott