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#41
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On 1/4/21 3:30 AM, krasw wrote:
These old open class gliders were designed for max LD at quite low speed, nothing else. Their handling in the air is not good and on the ground it is just awful. You will fly less because of this. I usually fly modern glider from std. class to 18/20m class. I flew one summer mostly Std. Cirrus and did enjoy xc flying exactly same as with any other type. You fly exactly same tactic as with modern glider, only with lower airspeed duirng glider and taking few more climbs. With a glider like Std. Libelle, thermalling is actually fun. Saying that thermalling is fun with N2 buys you a ticket to hospital with padded walls. There is a very good reason N2 is cheap to buy. The OP was clear that he wanted "airchair soaring" doing 300-500K tasks. Apparently he thinks he can buy a carefree experience with long wings. Maybe his expectations aren't realistic. He also thinks it's a particularly pretty glider, that shouldn't be a purchase consideration. |
#42
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
Eric Greenwell schrieb am Montag, 4. Januar 2021 um 14:30:19 UTC+1:
The original poster is looking at a N2, not an N2C. Is there a significant difference in the thermalling and the general handling of the two gliders? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 The Nimbus 2 series had many changes during the quite short production run. Some are mentioned in the TN/AD list on the Schempp-Hirth website, additional details were given in a Schempp-Hirth book published in the 80s ("Vom Wolf zum Discus"). For example, the N2B introduced a new mixer for flap/aileron deflections (similar to Janus) and changed the all-flying elevator to a conventional one. This should make quite a difference in handling. Christoph |
#43
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 07:43:22 -0700, kinsell wrote:
On 1/4/21 3:30 AM, krasw wrote: These old open class gliders were designed for max LD at quite low speed, nothing else. Their handling in the air is not good and on the ground it is just awful. You will fly less because of this. I usually fly modern glider from std. class to 18/20m class. I flew one summer mostly Std. Cirrus and did enjoy xc flying exactly same as with any other type. You fly exactly same tactic as with modern glider, only with lower airspeed duirng glider and taking few more climbs. With a glider like Std. Libelle, thermalling is actually fun. Saying that thermalling is fun with N2 buys you a ticket to hospital with padded walls. There is a very good reason N2 is cheap to buy. The OP was clear that he wanted "airchair soaring" doing 300-500K tasks. Apparently he thinks he can buy a carefree experience with long wings. Maybe his expectations aren't realistic. He also thinks it's a particularly pretty glider, that shouldn't be a purchase consideration. The OP will be used to good thermal climbs and relatively low XC speeds from time spent he's spent in an SZD Junior. I know them well. My club owns two for new solo pilots to fly when transitioning to single seaters, and I got my Silver in one of them. Now I fly a Std Libelle and would agree with the nice things others have said about its thermalling ability. There's very few gliders resident at my club that can out-climb either a Libelle or a Junior, especially in a narrow thermal. IMO both are nice to fly though the Libelle is smoother flying and quite a bit faster XC due to a better high speed polar, though both Libelle and Junior have the same Vne. About the Nimbus 2: here's all I know. I once helped an owner put his N2 back in its trailer when I was visiting Sutton Bank. He used a rope and pulley to slide the wings into what seemed quite a long trailer: I thought that was a clever trick. That's the only N2 I've seen. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#44
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 8:58:17 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 07:43:22 -0700, kinsell wrote: On 1/4/21 3:30 AM, krasw wrote: These old open class gliders were designed for max LD at quite low speed, nothing else. Their handling in the air is not good and on the ground it is just awful. You will fly less because of this. I usually fly modern glider from std. class to 18/20m class. I flew one summer mostly Std. Cirrus and did enjoy xc flying exactly same as with any other type. You fly exactly same tactic as with modern glider, only with lower airspeed duirng glider and taking few more climbs. With a glider like Std. Libelle, thermalling is actually fun. Saying that thermalling is fun with N2 buys you a ticket to hospital with padded walls. There is a very good reason N2 is cheap to buy. The OP was clear that he wanted "airchair soaring" doing 300-500K tasks.. Apparently he thinks he can buy a carefree experience with long wings. Maybe his expectations aren't realistic. He also thinks it's a particularly pretty glider, that shouldn't be a purchase consideration. The OP will be used to good thermal climbs and relatively low XC speeds from time spent he's spent in an SZD Junior. I know them well. My club owns two for new solo pilots to fly when transitioning to single seaters, and I got my Silver in one of them. Now I fly a Std Libelle and would agree with the nice things others have said about its thermalling ability. There's very few gliders resident at my club that can out-climb either a Libelle or a Junior, especially in a narrow thermal. IMO both are nice to fly though the Libelle is smoother flying and quite a bit faster XC due to a better high speed polar, though both Libelle and Junior have the same Vne. About the Nimbus 2: here's all I know. I once helped an owner put his N2 back in its trailer when I was visiting Sutton Bank. He used a rope and pulley to slide the wings into what seemed quite a long trailer: I thought that was a clever trick. That's the only N2 I've seen. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know virtually nothing about soaring in Poland except what friends have shared. However, I did have 10 1/2 years of UK soaring, ending in the mid-1990's. My experience was that a club member should consult with the chief instructor before buying a glider. If the glider was considered too advanced or complex for the member's level of experience or skill, they wouldn't be permitted to fly it until they exhibited that proficiency. I don't now if the same is true in Poland, but Piotr needs to have that talk perhaps. Some RAF gliders even had plates indicating minimum PIC time required to fly certain gliders. Perhaps things are different now. Any comment Martin? Frank Whiteley |
#45
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 3:02:52 AM UTC-8, gregv wrote:
Le lundi 4 janvier 2021 Ã* 11:30:06 UTC+1, krasw a écrit : These old open class gliders were designed for max LD at quite low speed, nothing else. Their handling in the air is not good and on the ground it is just awful. You will fly less because of this. I usually fly modern glider from std. class to 18/20m class. I flew one summer mostly Std. Cirrus and did enjoy xc flying exactly same as with any other type. You fly exactly same tactic as with modern glider, only with lower airspeed duirng glider and taking few more climbs. With a glider like Std. Libelle, thermalling is actually fun. Saying that thermalling is fun with N2 buys you a ticket to hospital with padded walls. There is a very good reason N2 is cheap to buy. I own a N2C since years, and I also fly other gliders (mainly discus 2, duodiscus, ls-4), I fly in Alpine area. I disagree when you say thermalling is not fun with The N2C, actually it is the most fun thing to do! You can litteraly outclimb every other ship, handling is superb, light and precise controls, yes you have to manage your feets and you loose 2 seconds when doing -45/+45 but is it an issue? When flying cross country I am faster than a duodiscus in every aspect. With 200L water, I feel unstoppable. Consider the LAK-12. The Russian Sport Gliding Federation used to put newly licensed pilots into them, for XC training. The rationale was that they wanted to hook pilots on XC. They found that putting pilots into 30:1 gliders resulted in many landouts and discouraged pilots from flying away from the field. The 48:1 12 allowed pilots to successfully complete longer and longer XC tasks, especially with 200 liters of water. The clubs had well organized retrieve teams and plenty of large fields to choose from. They are a piece of cake to fly, can be left rigged all season and they're cheap (15k us$). Good decision making can mean that outlandings only occur at aero retrievable airports. |
#46
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 12:11:35 PM UTC-8, kenward1000 wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 3:02:52 AM UTC-8, gregv wrote: Le lundi 4 janvier 2021 Ã* 11:30:06 UTC+1, krasw a écrit : These old open class gliders were designed for max LD at quite low speed, nothing else. Their handling in the air is not good and on the ground it is just awful. You will fly less because of this. I usually fly modern glider from std. class to 18/20m class. I flew one summer mostly Std. Cirrus and did enjoy xc flying exactly same as with any other type. You fly exactly same tactic as with modern glider, only with lower airspeed duirng glider and taking few more climbs. With a glider like Std. Libelle, thermalling is actually fun. Saying that thermalling is fun with N2 buys you a ticket to hospital with padded walls. There is a very good reason N2 is cheap to buy. I own a N2C since years, and I also fly other gliders (mainly discus 2, duodiscus, ls-4), I fly in Alpine area. I disagree when you say thermalling is not fun with The N2C, actually it is the most fun thing to do! You can litteraly outclimb every other ship, handling is superb, light and precise controls, yes you have to manage your feets and you loose 2 seconds when doing -45/+45 but is it an issue? When flying cross country I am faster than a duodiscus in every aspect. With 200L water, I feel unstoppable. Consider the LAK-12. The Russian Sport Gliding Federation used to put newly licensed pilots into them, for XC training. The rationale was that they wanted to hook pilots on XC. They found that putting pilots into 30:1 gliders resulted in many landouts and discouraged pilots from flying away from the field. The 48:1 12 allowed pilots to successfully complete longer and longer XC tasks, especially with 200 liters of water. The clubs had well organized retrieve teams and plenty of large fields to choose from. They are a piece of cake to fly, can be left rigged all season and they're cheap (15k us$). Good decision making can mean that outlandings only occur at aero retrievable airports. I reread the original post and noticed that the glider Piotr is talking about is an N2, not an N2C that I saw in a latter post. Knowing this, I definitely recommend that Piotr pass on this glider; he simply doesn't have the experience to handle a glider of this type. Tom |
#47
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 10:08:10 -0800, Frank Whiteley wrote:
Any comment Martin? Thats pretty much how my club works. Get permission from the committees to keep a glider on the field and, if they and the CFI are happy, do it. However, the closest I've been to Poland was Sazena in the Czech Republic. I a bunch of us were camping on the glider field there, because it was hosting the 1997 Free Flight Model World Champs. Learning to fly full-size gliders was still 4 years in the future for me, but I did notice a well cared for Antonov A-15 in the hangar. I realise I'm unlikely ever to have the chance to fly one, but its definitely on my bucket list! Besides, who can resist a good-looking all-metal V-tailed glider where the trim control is a length of bungee, its ends attached to the bottom corners of the panel and hooked to one of a row of hooks on the front of the stick! As far as I can tell, its performance isn't a lot different to a Std Libelle. Martin Simons quotes best glide 40:1, an ad for the one I saw at Sazena claims 37.5:1 at 95 km/h - my Libelle is about 37:1 at 52kts (95 km/h), but the A-15 is a lot heavier at 320 kg. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#48
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Quote:
:-) Colin |
#49
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
I like Dan's comments regarding having the right attitude and aptitude and flying conservatively.
If money is not an issue then an older 15m ship is probably going to be a better idea if you plan to fly aggressively. I don't compete so flying conservative 3 to 5 hours flights (300 to 500km) on nice days suites me just fine. If I wanted to fly aggressively I would not have bought the Nimbus 2. I chose the Nimbus 2 for various reasons: 1. There was nothing available with a 40+:1 L/D within my budget. ASW20's were selling for 3 to 4 times the price and club single seaters were not always available and often had a waiting queue which meant long cross country flights on nice days were not possible. 2. I wanted to have 100% ownership in a glider which I know no one else has broken, mis-rigged, etc. without my knowledge. I saw club gliders being abused or landed hard and then hangared for the next person to fly so safety became a motivating factor. 3. The used glider market in my area is very small with limited demand so purchasing something like an Astir G102 and then being unable to sell it later to upgrade to a higher performance glider wasn't an option. 4. I have long legs and the Nimbus 2 is the only glider I've flown which has a long cockpit I fit in comfortably. Getting cramps in my ankle and calf muscles and having an aching lower back after an hour of flying single Astirs was no longer enjoyable. My long legs ruled out older, affordable 15m ships like Astirs, ASW15, ASW19. 5. The area I fly in has large fields (500m to 1500m long) and often with shorter grass crops so outlandings are less of a risk. That allowed me to remove the tail chute to avoid the "will it deploy when I need it" and "accidental deployment" scenarios. I have the single panel Schempp-Hirth airbrakes so approach control is adequate but not great. If you need to outland in fields less than 500m with obstacles on approach then I would not recommend the Nimbus 2. Fiddling with a tail chute which doesn't want to deploy while trying to outland in a small field is not the sort of risk I want to take.. Each individual has different circumstances, needs and abilities. The Nimbus 2 is not what I would regard as a "sweet ship" so take the advice about the ground handling and less ideal properties seriously before making a decision. One of the other pilots in the club bought a Nimbus 2M and his experience has not been great at all. Having the CofG near the aft limits probably played a large part in that experience. Have you actually flown a Nimbus 2? I suggest you organise a test flight before making the purchase. Maybe you can organise a dual in something with an all flying elevator like a Janus first. |
#50
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First glider Nimbus 2 ?
Here is a copy of my Nimbus 2 Flight and Service Manual as requested.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4a...w?usp=drivesdk |
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