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Emergency Procedures



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 04, 06:05 PM
RD
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Default Emergency Procedures

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I
really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other
emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some
re-familiarization of procedures.

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.

Thanks,
Ryan


  #2  
Old April 8th 04, 06:24 PM
Tony Cox
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Default

"RD" wrote in message
...

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one

I
really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other
emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some
re-familiarization of procedures.


I have engine failure and fire on my checklist. I've memorized them,
and review them prior to each flight (really). Is that what you mean
by 'all'? They're the only ones mentioned in the POH.

I constantly review what I'd do in various circumstances, sometimes
to the point of obsession. It's probably not healthy, but that's me. I
like to think I'd know what to do if I lost a control surface, had one
stick on me, had a passenger get seriously ill, became partially
incapacitated myself, hit a large bird, got shot at, and just about
everything else a paranoid mind can conceive.


On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with

that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


Depends, doesn't it? I've never lost a valve, so I've no idea how rough
is rough. If the shaking made me very nervous, I'd shut down. If the
engine was just rough because of a missing cylinder and the shaking
minimal, I'd climb at Vy in anticipation of a full failure. If I was over
a dry lake bed or other clear area, I'd shut the engine off anyway
and land ASAP. Saving the plane from damage isn't a consideration.


  #3  
Old April 8th 04, 06:53 PM
Cecil Chapman
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Default

Just sounds like good 'preparedness' to me!

I do the same.

When I had my first (and only,,, so far) engine failure, it was a positive
experience in that (because of having thought about this scenario and
planned for it) I was able to go immediately to dispassionately
problem-solving and at the same time, setting up the plane for an emergency
glide to a suitable landing area (which fortunately was an airport that had
been a waypoint on my route, just 7 or 8 nautical miles behind me - I was at
7,500,,, plenty of options for farmland too.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Tony Cox" wrote in message
ink.net...
"RD" wrote in message
...

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only

one
I
really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any

other
emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some
re-familiarization of procedures.


I have engine failure and fire on my checklist. I've memorized them,
and review them prior to each flight (really). Is that what you mean
by 'all'? They're the only ones mentioned in the POH.

I constantly review what I'd do in various circumstances, sometimes
to the point of obsession. It's probably not healthy, but that's me. I
like to think I'd know what to do if I lost a control surface, had one
stick on me, had a passenger get seriously ill, became partially
incapacitated myself, hit a large bird, got shot at, and just about
everything else a paranoid mind can conceive.


On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say

the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with

that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent

it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


Depends, doesn't it? I've never lost a valve, so I've no idea how rough
is rough. If the shaking made me very nervous, I'd shut down. If the
engine was just rough because of a missing cylinder and the shaking
minimal, I'd climb at Vy in anticipation of a full failure. If I was over
a dry lake bed or other clear area, I'd shut the engine off anyway
and land ASAP. Saving the plane from damage isn't a consideration.




  #4  
Old April 8th 04, 09:08 PM
EDR
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article , RD wrote:

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures. The only one I
really know is the engine failure procedure. I have to admit, if any other
emergency was to develop I think I'm unprepared and it's time I do some
re-familiarization of procedures.
On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


If it is still making power, I am going to use it.
I will look to put it on the ground as soon as possible, but I will use
the extra power to pick the best spot.

I was taught the most complete engine failures usually occur after a
power change.
  #5  
Old April 8th 04, 09:22 PM
G.R. Patterson III
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Default



RD wrote:

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures.


Well, lessee here. I think I have the engine-out down and the fire-in-the-hole one.
I'm also pretty good at the "Ohmygodwherethehellarewe" one. I'm not sure I have the
theres-an-f16-off-the-right-wing one memorized, though. What else do we have?

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


Well, I kept the engine going until I got it down, but I had a runway in sight. If
there's really serious reason to believe that the engine will depart the aircraft,
get it down ASAP. That plays hell with your W&B.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".
  #6  
Old April 8th 04, 10:40 PM
RD
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Posts: n/a
Default

True. If your engine fell off the plane you have serious problems. I don't
think you can fly after that - period. So keeping the engine on board is
crucial for W&B. At what point does the vibration necessitate a shutdown?

R.



--
Thank You,
Ryan
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


RD wrote:

How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures.


Well, lessee here. I think I have the engine-out down and the

fire-in-the-hole one.
I'm also pretty good at the "Ohmygodwherethehellarewe" one. I'm not sure I

have the
theres-an-f16-off-the-right-wing one memorized, though. What else do we

have?

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say

the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with

that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent

it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


Well, I kept the engine going until I got it down, but I had a runway in

sight. If
there's really serious reason to believe that the engine will depart the

aircraft,
get it down ASAP. That plays hell with your W&B.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band

to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come

home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".



  #7  
Old April 8th 04, 11:22 PM
G.R. Patterson III
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Posts: n/a
Default



RD wrote:

True. If your engine fell off the plane you have serious problems. I don't
think you can fly after that - period.


I read of one case in which they made it down alive. In that case, it was either a
150 or a 172 with a student and CFI on board. They were practicing MCA, so they had
the flaps all the way down. Mid-air collison removed the entire firewall-forward. In
Texas, IIRC.

So keeping the engine on board is
crucial for W&B. At what point does the vibration necessitate a shutdown?


In my case, one cylinder out of four quit. I have to admit, the vibration was scary,
but she hung together until I got it down, and the engine mounts checked out ok
later.

S'funny. After I shut down, I walked into the FBO. Asked if anyone had a cigarette.
My then-fiance looked at me. "What's this 'cigarette' garbage? You don't smoke."

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".
  #8  
Old April 8th 04, 11:39 PM
Peter Duniho
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Default

"RD" wrote in message
...
How many of you have memorized all the emergency procedures.


I have memorized all the emergency procedures at least once. I admit,
without very frequent recurrent training, it's hard to keep them memorized.
For my insurance, I get recurrent training annually, during which the
emergency procedures are reviewed, but I've always forgotten something
between each annual review.

IMHO, emergency procedures should be a part of any BFR, even when you are
focusing mostly on other things (like mountaing flying, instrument work,
that sort of thing). It's probably a good idea to fly with an instructor at
least annually to refresh your memory, even if your insurance company
doesn't require it. Airline pilots go over this sort of stuff even more
frequently (every six months at least, if I recall), which should tell you
something.

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with

that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


It depends. But generally speaking, an internal failure is probably not
going to break the motor mounts. A broken prop will, and you should get the
engine shut down as fast as is humanly possible in that case (I'd cut the
ignition AND the mixture AND the fuel shutoff, in that order). In the case
of an internal failure where the engine is still making power, I'd keep the
engine going as long as it seemed to be helping more than hurting.

If you are thirty miles from the nearest airport, you may feel the engine
won't make it that far, and landing with power off-airport may be desirable
to losing the engine on the way to the airport. Of course, even if you
decide to try to make it to an airport, you should be even more vigilant
than usual about knowing where your emergency landing site will be, should
the engine give up before you get to the airport.

Pete


  #9  
Old April 9th 04, 01:55 AM
John Galban
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Posts: n/a
Default

"RD" wrote in message ...

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.


Something like this is a judgement call. If you think the engine is
shaking so violently that it will rip off the mounts, then by all
means shut it down. If you can get it to run smoother at a different
power setting, then do it. This isn't something you're going to be
able to put into a checklist.

Generally speaking, making it to a runway is going to provide the
best chance for you and your passengers to avoid injury. It will be
up to you to judge if the plane will hold together long enough for
that to happen, or if an off airport landing would be safer. Keep in
mind that a lot dead folks have "almost made it to the runway".

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)
  #10  
Old April 9th 04, 04:19 AM
A Lieberman
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Posts: n/a
Default

RD wrote:

On a side note, I'm a bit confused about a partial engine failure. Say the
engine loses a valve and runs VERY rough. Should I continue flying with that
engine in hopes of making a runway, or shut the engine down to prevent it
from ripping itself off the airplane and turning me into a large paper
weight.

Thanks,
Ryan


Ryan,

Been through a partial engine failure where a cylinder ate an exhaust
valve. See below my name for what I posted last year. With proper
training, it is a "non event". Other then your heart going a thousand
beats faster, first and foremost important thing, is FLY THE PLANE.

Of course, the general press never hears about good outcomes at an
uncontrolled airport.

Even with me declaring an emergency, other then calling into FSS after
landing, no paperwork.

Allen

{Posted July 2003}

Thought I would share my first emergency....

I was flying from MBO (Madison MS) to L31 (Covington / St Tamminy LA) to
meet my sister for dinner, and get some night time hours on the return
trip. I have done this trip many times.

Left Madison at 5:00 p.m. with an expected arrival at 6:15. I am
starting my IFR training, so figured to really focus on holding altitude
and heading working on "precision flying". I was doing great all along
the trip, and looking ahead, saw major buildups in my path. Called
122.00 and asked for an inflight advisory. Weather was moving SSW and
though close, they said I should make my destination. Little did I know
the weather would be the least of my concerns.

15 miles from my destination cruising at 3500, I got a horrible
vibration throughout the engine. First thing I did was put the carb heat
on. Made the vibration even worse. I held the carb heat for about 10
seconds, and turned it off.

Immediately saw a "target farm field" should I need it and never let it
leave my sight. Next, switched tanks, no change in vibration. Next fuel
pump, no change. Next, checked my mags, left, then right, no change in
vibration.

Next, turned to 121.5 and said, This is Sundowner 12345L declaring an
emergency, anybody monitoring the frequency. As I am doing this, I am
setting myself up for the "best glide" speed of 78 knots. Guard responds
with Sundowner 12345L, go ahead with your emergency. I replied back, I
have an extremely rough running engine, I am 12 miles from destination,
I have an alternative field in site should I need it, I will be sqawking
7700. I then turn the transponder to 7700. In this short time, I lost
500 valuable feet altitude.

As I reduced my power, and enriched the engine, trying different "power"
settings, I noticed the vibration reduced somewhat. I watched my VSI,
and noticed that I was able to "maintain" a 200 foot descent. Quick math
in my head said, I had "15 minutes" flying time if I left my
configuration the way it was, and now I was 10 miles from destination.
121.5 gets New Orleans approach, and New Orleans approach gets on 121.5
and tells me to squawk 4026. I acknowledge New Orleans approach, change
my transponder to 4026, and said to New Orleans approach, that I have a
stable 200 foot descent rate, engine is running rough, and my intention
is to proceed on to L31. Once I made my decision, I pretty much left
what I had going alone. 4 miles out, I said "New Orleans approach,
Sundowner 12345L request to change to 122.80. New Orleans approach said
frequency change approved, please call FSS to let us know you are safe
on the ground. I said Sundowner 12345. will call FSS after touchdown. I
set the radio to 122.80, called in Unicom and said, St Tamminy Sundowner
12345L declaring an emergency, inbound for runway 18 straight in
approach. In my nervousnous, New Orleans approach says, Sundowner
12345L, you are still transmitting on 121.5. Duh, helps to change the
button from Com 1 to Com 2. So, I switch coms, and repeat my broadcast.

2 miles out, see that I am way too high for straight in, I decided
instead of a straight in approach, that I would enter on the downwind
leg, and proceed to use runway 36 to lose my altitude. I announce on
122.80, Saint Tamminy, Sundowner 12345L declaring emergency, changing
intentions, entering downwind for 36. I left my power settings the way I
had it, for the first half of downwind, and then abeam the numbers, I
reduced the power ever so slowly, and also enriched the mixture ever so
slowly. Engine got rougher, but kept running. Trimmed for landing,
extended first set of flaps, and the second set of flaps on downwind. I
did this so all I had to do was really concentrate on flying the plane
for base and final rather then "finess the plane". Kept my downwind
closer to the runway then normal and turn base much sooner then normal.
On final, I was 1200 feet above field elevation. On final, I heard that
little voice say, better to hit the trees at the end of the runway then
the beginning, so I made sure, that I had a higher than normal approach.

Seeing I was way high, I put in full right rudder, full left aileron,
and pretty much turn the plane perpendicular to the runway. Slip worked
great, ears starting popping on descent, and when I cleared the trees,
turned forward. Saw I was still too high, returned to the slip, for
another 5 to 10 seconds, and then straightened out. Cross the numbers
about 25 feet AGL, speed, just above glide speed, cut the throttle to a
fast idle. I get major vibration in the engine Started to lower the
nose, felt my speed increase, and then raised the nose. Hit ground
effect, halfway down the runway, ballooned to about 5 feet above the
ground, I raised the nose to bleed off the speed, landed on the last
third of the runway. Runway is 2999 feet, so I knew I wasn't stopping at
the end of the runway, applied firm brakes, rolled off the runway, with
the yoke clear to my chest. I was able to stop about 50 feet after
leaving the end of the runway in hard ground with about knee high grass.

Engine was really rough, I turn around and limp back to the ramp,
airframe and gear fully intact. Go to shut down, and the engine did not
want to shut down. It finally shut down. My brother in law was waiting
for me at the airport (he is a pilot), we decide to start up the engine
to see if he could figure out the problem. Engine was rough on idle,
tried to increase RPMs, but the best we could get is 1800, so we shut
down.

We start calling A&P's around the area, and finally found one that could
come out the next day. After describing the symptoms, first thing she
thought was a fuel related problem, and asked me the usual questions,
did I sump, did I see water, and so on. Nothing in the fuel, I told her
runup was absolutely normal.

She pokes around the engine, pulling all fuel related hoses, saw lines
and screens were clear, so next, she pulled the prop through and found
that a cylinder lost all compressions. So, now the obvious occurred, now
to find why.... She pulled the cylinder out, and after opening the
cylinder, we saw an unbelievable sight. Piston head had shards of metal
pounded in it from the exhuast valve, even more amazing was the cylinder
walls were smooth, and rings remained intact! She suspected that most of
the exhaust valve was ejected out the exhaust pipe as she found
fragments of metal through the exhaust manifold but very little in the
intake portion of the engine. Problem "solved" so we thought, replace
the cylinder, and off I go.

She comes back the next day, installed the cylinder, changed the oil,
leak tested the engine and closed the cowling, she wanted to go up with
me, as she had never been in a Sundowner. It is dark by this time, and
while she was getting her tools together, I preflight. I taxi to the
runway, call unicom to advise that I was backtaxing to 36. The runway
has a runup area at the very end of the runway, I do the runup, all
looks good. I get to the end of 36, and the A&P says, before departing,
I need you to do a full throttle test. I hold the brakes, put the
throttle full forward, and only get 2200 RPM. POH requires 2700. She
says, lean it a tad, see what happens. No change to RPM. Lean it more,
EGT and CHT goes up, engine starts running "normal rough". Needless to
say, not good. She says taxi back to the ramp. No flying tonight. We
taxi back, we pull the cowl. She says, the engine is acting like it is
getting too much hot air for the RPMs not to go full throttle,
reverifies the duct work, and all looks good. Last thing to look at is
the carberator as the engine was purring like a kitten, just could not
get 2700 RPM. We called it the night (11:00 p.m.)

She said, I had a better chance at winning the lotto then what happened
to me. The carberator was the top of the line carberator, and she said
in the 19 years she has been an A&P, she has never pulled one from an
engine. So, today, she pulls the carberator, and she tears it down. She
noticed that the lever to the throttle would not push full forward. It
would go it's full range. She felt that due to the severe vibration,
something in the carberator shook loose, and is preventing the full
extension of the throttle cable. So, now I need a new carberator put in.

Seeing the forest through the trees, I figure the outcome was as good as
it got, considering the catastropic engine problem I experienced.

One thing I cannot thank my instructor enough was to instill the "what
if scenarios", as when it really happened, I heard him in my mind say,
make a decision, stick to it, but most importantly FLY THE PLANE.

The only thing I could not do during this entire episode is to pull the
POH for emergency procedures. I found as the real thing happens, you
don't have time to pull a book, find the chapter, and go to the list. My
first instinct was to do what I could remember (I studied my POH big
time when I bought the plane, and refer to it frequently, to be sure I
know what to do) and FLY THE PLANE.

I have an emergency checklist seperate, but in reality, the time it
takes to pull the list, get yourself oriented, you lose very valuable
time when you are in the plane by yourself. It may have been different
if I had a passenger, but when I was alone, I relied on my memory.
(which as it turned out was not so bad *smile*.

I could have possibly diverted to another airport in Slidell LA in
"gliding range" with a longer runway, but the thunderstorms that I saw
were over that airport, so I ruled out trying to make it to that
airport.

In "hangar" talk, I asked some pilots, should I file an ASR report. It
was split down the middle, some said yes, some said no. I am leaning on
filing a report.

Allen

Lessons Learned:
Take those engine failure lessons seriously! One never knows when it
will happen.

Don't hesitate to declare an emergency! No sooner then I released the
mic button, guard was answering my call.

For my experience, no warning was indicated, but thats not to say
engines don't give warnings. After the emergency (10 hours later), I
could not get the mag check to pass, so I "listened" to the engine, turn
back to the ramp, and shut it down. My next "phone call" was to the A&P
to get the engine overhauled. Engine had 2010 hours and TBO was 2000.
Even though compressions were good, turned out, one cylinder was getting
"wet", flooding both plugs, thus the decision for overhaul.

I now learned to make my pattern "tigher" as if the engine is about to
fail. I make my downwind closer to the runway, and final no more then
1/4 mile from the numbers.
 




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