Sad Accident over Deland

After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville,
Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity there,
it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a
couple of days ago.

I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs
severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as
jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those
Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing,
which we found to be very disconcerting.

The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the
ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident.

In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving
through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and other
planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as
possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch.

I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely.

Very sad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Very sad indeed, horrible story.

I had my close encounters with jump planes more than enough.
These are the very rare occasions that I want to have the military
version of my plane including the hardware.

-Kees

Jay Honeck wrote:

After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville,
Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity there,
it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a
couple of days ago.

Um, Jay.. are you saying that they are dangerous? Or were they at a
different comfort level than what you are used to? The pilot AND the
jumper involved, according to their peers (who have posted about this
incident), were VERY well known for their approach to safety. This was a
case of Big Sky/Small plane that didnt quite work out.

I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs
severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as
jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those
Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing,
which we found to be very disconcerting.

The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the
ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident.

No. That pretty much sums it up.. Bleedouts suck.

In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving
through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!)

I've seen pics of the jump plane heading down.. but I've never heard it
described like that before.

and other
planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as
possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch.

I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely.

Yanno... A lot of people say the same thing about people flying them
small planes.

Very sad.

Yes.. And honestly, I think that the fact that accidents such as this
are so RARE is a testament to the safety of the system. Discussion among
the jumpers, both on usenet and in their forum.. lists a grand total of
maybe 4 people who have had fatal collisions with planes in God Knows
How Long.. FOUR. In YEARS.. More people than that DIED in the past 3
days in Houston Texas Traffic car wrecks. Its unfortunate that two of
the safest folks at the field (in the opinion of their peers) didn't see
and avoid each other.. with tragic results.

I flew into a drop zone on a private field a few years back.. The
operation was professional the whole way, and I coordinated with the
jump plane on the way in (and out) to avoid the flow of jumpers.. The
jump pilots knew where all their chutes were, and when they were on the
ground. I've personally not been to Deland, nor seen their operation,
but if they were as haphazard as you suggest, wouldn't it be raining
body parts from mangled meat-missles?

Dave

In article .net, Dave S wrote:
Yes.. And honestly, I think that the fact that accidents such as this
are so RARE is a testament to the safety of the system. Discussion among
the jumpers, both on usenet and in their forum.. lists a grand total of
maybe 4 people who have had fatal collisions with planes in God Knows
How Long.. FOUR. In YEARS..

More telling is that at skydiving's Oshkosh (the big convention at
Quincy, Illinois) there are more injuries on the days they DON'T fly
than on the days they do fly - and on the days they do fly there are
several jumpships in the air at once and many skydivers in the air at
once. They even jump out of a Boeing 727 on occasion.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article 4eqbe.16614$c24.11911@attbi_s72,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:



I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs
severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as
jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those
Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing,
which we found to be very disconcerting.

The jumper was struck by the wing outboard of the left engine...he did
not hit the prop. Did you just assume it was a prop strike because of
the amputations?


In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving
through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and other
planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as
possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch.

Your minds eye needs an adjustment. I wasn't there but I've made many
skydives and hauled even more loads of skydivers. The jump planes do
not dive "through an absolute crowd of skydivers". What a bunch of
crap! Jump pilots do try to be as efficient as possible getting a quick
turnaround for the next load. That doesn't mean we operate in a
reckless manner with "getting back for the next load" being the only
thing we're concentrating on. If you took the time to talk to some jump
pilots, or better yet ride with them, you'll find that the jump pilot
probably has a much better situational awareness then the usual GA pilot
coming into an airport. The jump pilot is well aware that he will be
descending into the airport area, that a midair collision risk is high.
He will take precautions/use procedures that help to lower the risk.

Just because an operation is outside your comfort zone or experience
level Jay does not mean it's unsafe or reckless.

This was a tragic accident. As another posted stated both the victim
and the pilot are known for being very safe operators.

And for the poster who made the comment about wanting the military gear
on his airplane because of jump planes...that made me laugh. You can't
imagine the number of times I've wished I had guns mounted on the jump
plane because of the unthinking, uncaring morons who come blasting
through a published, charted parachute operation placing themselves,
their passengers and the jumpers in great peril.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:11:44 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville,
Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity
there,
it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a
couple of days ago.

I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs
severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as
jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those
Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing,
which we found to be very disconcerting.

The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the
ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident.

In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving
through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and
other
planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as
possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch.
I was saddended to hear it too.

I can't speak for that airport, but I've flown in and out of Zypher
Hills many times watching and fitting in with he jump planes and
jumpers.

The jump planes do follow a pattern albeit steep and the only way I
see one coming near a jumper is if the jumper is way out of position,
or ends up landing on the runway. The Jump planes are normally well
away from the jumpers.


I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely.

I'm surprised it happens with a jumper and their jump plane, but not
is it was some one passing through. You'd be amazed at how many end
up tooling through a jump zone.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Very sad.

Even Notams don't work sometimes.

I remember like it was yesterday; standing at the Blues Com Trailer with
John Patton of the Blue Angels at the Reading Show in 74. Tony Less took the
Diamond straight up for the Diamond Loop. Both Patton and I saw the Cherokee
140 at the same time. John had a hot mike in his had and direct contact with
Tony in Blue 1. The formation went right past the Cherokee before either of
us could speak. We discovered in the post flight brief that none of the team
saw the Cherokee, and to this day, I honestly believe the pilot in the
Cherokee must have seen the team go by him. We judged he was close enough
that his pants were stained when he landed at where ever he was headed.
There are NOTAMS issued on the Blues performance times, and the field is
closed for traffic during demonstrations. We checked. All the NOTAMS were
intact. The times were correct. The guy in the Cherokee didn't read the
NOTAMS and wasn't advised either. He simply wandered in and flew right
through the restricted airspace unannounced and uninvited.
It happens!!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Newps wrote:
That's why it's stupid to skydive into an airport.

By the same argument, it's stupid to fly near an airport.
Sure makes it convenient to get on the airplane.

These accidents happen every year.

Really? I can only think of this happenning one time bofore
when a meat bomb took out a cherokee.

Larry Dighera wrote:


Of course, FARs* require pilots to obtain _ALL_ available information
before flight. Given today's pop-up Temporary Flight Restrictions, it
is even more important to check NOTAMs during the preflight briefing.
The FSS briefer or DUATS should have issued the NOTAM related to the
parachute activity. And if ATC is providing Radar Advisory Service,
the controller providing traffic advisories would have warned of the
hot drop zone.

If this is a regularly active drop zone, it gets published in the A/FD
and perhaps a parachute symbol on the chart, and there no longer is any
NOTAM for the briefer to report. They expect you to check the chart
and A/FD as part of your preflight planning.

ATC, workload permitting, is always a good thing to try, but not
foolproof.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

That's why it's stupid to skydive into an airport. These accidents
happen every year.


Which accidents? There have been a few cases of jumpers in freefall
having a collision with an aircraft in flight but this is the first case
I've heard of a jumper under canopy being hit. And folks in the sport
that have been around a lot longer than I have don't remember this ever
happening before. You have date or place?

The biggest problem I've seen with jumping on a public airport is the GA
pilot that can't deal with an unusual situation, or doesn't take the
time to educate himself on his destination.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Jay Honeck wrote:

That's no different than when I'm working the pattern in Iowa City
for
an hour. Familiarity with the pattern should allow for greater
situational awareness, if the pilot is on his/hers toes.

When you work in the pattern for hours a day, every day, for years,
then you can compare your situational awareness to that of a jump
pilot, especially at Deland or other large operations where they have
the best of them.


but their greater speed and ability
to stop on a dime using beta thrust made it all work out okay.

Of course it all worked out okay. The jump pilot never had any doubt
it would. They weren't taking a chance, they knew how much space they
had, what the typical GA aircraft is capable of, what their aircraft is
capable of, and how to maneuver around you.
I ran across effectively the same situation in the pattern when I was a
student in a C152 with a Bonanza sharing the pattern. Get this - I
felt unsafe FOLLOWING this plane at the distance my instructor told me.
It was TOO CLOSE to be safe. Yet guess what? He was probably on the
ground a good few minutes before I turned final. Just because I wasn't
experienced enough at the time to be comfortable, doesn't mean the
situation was unsafe.
In your case, you weren't experienced enough to be comfortable with it,
yet "it all worked out okay" because the jump pilot made sure it did.
It wasn't just coincidence.